Setting aside the issues with Streaming, let's look at other issue with Stadia. Youtube is heavily filtered by Google making the life of many Youtubers harder than if they were on right side of political spectrum. Your videos will be filtered out, even though they are trending, and videos that aren't trending are purposely put on trending even though they are not because the messages in the videos align with Google's political views. This will happen to with Stadia. Imagine "Sorry this game has been removed because it's problematic", because that will happen.

Then there is the issue that Google most likely aims to replace traditional way to play games:

Eventually, all of our games will be safely in the cloud too and we'll feel great about it

Where as a ideal future with Streaming would be one where it supplements normal way to play games. Not trying to replace it. So you can imagine Google will deploy exclusivity deals and such to try burn out non streaming platforms.

Let's hope Valve will have streaming figured out by time Stadia ever gets a chance to take off. Valve, imo, respects freedom much more than Google and is right company to be at the helm of streaming. I don't have a problem with streaming by itself, I think it's great. But the only positive I can see with Google and Stadia is increasing Vulkan adoption.

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He comes off as opportunistic, I don't trust him. If he believes Linux is truly great, then he can push for adoption of software that would help the platform. I wish I could say he's a good guy, but since EGS exclusivity began I see mostly garbage actions by him. Remember, he compared using Linux to moving to Canada if you weren't happy with US. That's not exactly a statement one would make if one truly believed Linux is great. Unless of course he means Linux is great because it's cheap and inexpensive for servers and similar, and not actual desktop Linux.

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I found the game I spoke of: Heart of Darkness

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Tina looks like little sister of a boy in a other video game. The other game is a boy who who has a similar looking helmet with a shock gun and a dog following him. Surrounding where he is are shadow like figures trying to get him. I can't search that game up to show.

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Quoting: GuestYou've pretty much hit the nail on the head here. There's no reason a native GNU/Linux game can't perform as well as a Windows one, but porting after the fact with a complex codebase that's designed around another platform, that's going to be troublesome no matter what (and is why there are so many crappy console to desktop ports for Windows).

Doom 2016 runs so well through wine because it's very similar to just using some cross-platform screen creation and input handling. The entire engine is designed around Vulkan, but I also suspect designed around a POSIX environment. Because of the server side, they had full support for case-sensitive filesystems in the core of the engine. All their memory management is perfectly compatible with anything - again, they need it to be because of server side. So in a very real sense, it was development with a native *nix environment in mind, and the end result is a flawless running game.

If you can get in while the game is being developed, and support GNU/Linux at that stage, then it becomes a much better end product compared to porting after the fact.

(Kinda hoping Stadia will help this aspect of gaming - even if there's no official native port, the design of games might progress to a stage where they're much better aligned with GNU/Linux environments.)

This whole ordeal with native vs wine is precisely why I am convinced Proton is a benefit more than anything else. Yes, it can and will make developers decide against a native port because it runs with Proton but that I think is for better. Some developers are in dire situations and may not be able to justify a port (costs to much), and so a Proton route would work for them. While others may be lazy, but if that's their mindset then it's likely that they would have developed Linux release poorly. Just to get it out of the way and check that "Linux Kickstarter" promise.

I am confident Stadia will help Proton question is just how much. As we already know the game developers will need to use Vulkan. So with that in mind these are the noteworthy games:
Baldursgate 3 - Previous games have had Linux release
Borderlands 3 - Previous games have had Linux release
Destiny 2 - Releases on Steam. VAC or/and Steam trustmatchmaking for anti cheat?
Doom Eternal - DRM free or will Denuvo version work with Linux?
Metro Exodus - Feral magic
Shadow of.. - Feral magic highly likely

More games will come from other developers as well.

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Quoting: SalvatosNot to discount the rest of your argument, but I don't find this part to be particularly tied to Proton. We've seen native ports (and software in general) become broken and never get fixed, and Proton support doesn't have to be a one-and-done thing: they can keep supporting and patching the game to maintain Proton compatibility. It's more a matter of how committed a dev is to supporting Linux than how they choose to do it.

Quoting: BeamboomAdd to this the sad(?) fact that indeed Proton have been observed to perform better than the ported games (compared to the Windows performance), and this picture is really starting to get a bit convoluted - and really quite interesting.

Any software that is abandoned will sooner or later break as things change. It's nothing special to Linux as you all know. But what's to take note is that on Linux this happen more. Developers make a port, release it then they abandon or neglect the game. There are other factors that make it more likely that "native"/native ports will have higher risk of issues; developers have less experience with Linux, they have used software components that can cause issues (D3D, DX sound, their own anti cheat solution etc), sloppy development and so on.

Deep Silver supporting Steam Machines is what spurred the Metro Last Light port. Steam Machines didn't materialize to be the big thing they hoped for, so they have abandoned the port. When you go to adjust graphic settings all you have is a quality slider, and that's not only issue with that "native" port.

Native games underperforming or breaking is because of developers and not inherently because developing games on Linux is bad. Even Feral can't do anything about this, with Tomb Raider underperforming compared to Windows [External Link]. If Feral was on the task to make a Linux version, while the game was being developed, you can bet the performance would be comparable to Windows.

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Quoting: Beamboom... But why? Why does it matter, if Proton provides a 100% working out of the box experience on par with a native build?
If you experience no difference?

Because them developing their games properly for Linux will help the ecosystem, and there is also the risk of Proton not working anymore. When devs develop for Linux they will experience issues, file bugs and then get it all fixed. Linux gaming and desktop will benefit. This is what Valve experienced when they began their Linux journey. They contributed to improving drivers, and now we are benefiting from that work. If developers continue to rely on Steam Play Linux ecosystem will not grow as much as it can if they do. But I want to emphasize, that I'm talking of a hypothetical situation where we achieve market share of 5-10%, which will give us the right demand. Right now I find it unreasonable to demand native ports as Linux is not profitable or profitable enough.

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Quoting: BeamboomBut if I may ask:
From your perspective, all things considered, does it really matter if Proton or not as long as it works 100% out of the box and on par with native builds? I mean, it's less work for the devs (ergo more profitable per sale) and the same experience for us?

You didn't ask me but I hope you don't mind me answering:
At the moment with current market share it does not matter. Linux is either not profitable or not profitable enough. Proton will allow developers to support us. But when our market share reaches a point where we have valid reasons to ask for a native port, then it matters. When and if that time ever comes, "No Tux No Buck" will be as meaningful response as it ever can be.

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To be fair to Epic, they have little power over consoles. On Mac, Windows and Android they can release their store but Xbox and PS4 they can't. So they have to either take out their games from consoles, to sending a message (losing alot revenue), or let them stay there for time being til split changes on PC and then they can pressure consoles with that change. One of the things on their roadmap is a Android store, so they seem to have intentions to go after Google too if they are successful on Windows.
So it's reasonable what they are doing. I just question how sincere they are. Epic seems like a snake in grass trying to attack a wolf which is fishing for fish. I mean clearly Valve's fur isn't all white, but they certainly are good for PC gaming.

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Quoting: NanobangSpeaking of which, are games being sold on Epic's store for 18% cheaper? If they're not, then that's more money for the makers, nothing good for the customer. Win/lose in that relationship.

How about for the employees at the game companies like Paradox? Are the board members, share-holders, and executives using that additional 18% profit to hire more employees, or give raises to current employees or otherwise improve working conditions? I don't know, but from what I've seen of corporations, not unless you put a gun to their collective head.

I don't believe any of that. The cheaper games seems to be just a phase for them to be able to market the store. "Look gamers get cheaper games". Then when the dust settles and Epic gets foot hold, the prices will go back to the same as usual. Same for developers who work on games, most likely money will not be spread fairly to devs or used to hire more.

EDIT: There are or was games on Epic being sold for less than $60. I think Metro Exodus and World War Z was two of them. But as I said it seems to be just a act to market the store as opposed to a new price rule. Epic has not made any rule, like GOG has with DRM, where they say games must cost less than $60. It's all up to publishers and those who hold the right.

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