Proton adds to WINE. Valve isn't just forking it and keep it to themselves +1
Proton encourages Linux purchases +1
Proton enables gaming +5 (Tons games we will never see a port for)

And you read what Pierre said "At this early stage...". That makes me so pleased. There is a time and place for every points that have been made in Proton discussion. Right now Linux is gaining foothold, small as it may be.

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Keep in mind with Proton is that developers can only continue relying on it so much before they get backlash. The bigger the percentage of gamers on Linux the more noise there will be about developers who take lazy route. If Linux gets 5% share on Steam, that 5% will create alot bad PR for the company (and rightfully so if they are lazy). Just take Rocket League as example..
At certain percentage reluctant developers will be forced by marketshare to consider Linux whether they like it or not.

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Quoting: SirLootALotIf a game is developed for only one platform it is not an exclusive. It becomes exclusive at the point where an agreement is done with whoever to exclude a certain platform from development.
It is one thing to not care about a platform. Actively hindering that platform to prosper is a different thing.

Totally agree, developing for one platform is not exclusivity. That said I would wager alot that many if not all of the games in 2020 will be exclusive to Stadia because of a agreement.

Gylt Exclusivity [External Link]

Except it is not.

Eurogamer spoke to Raúl Rubio Munárriz, co-founder and creative director of Tequila Works and asked for clarification as, until way in to 2020, the only way to play Gylt is to fork out £120 on the Google Stadia Founder Edition package and that seems rather limiting.

“OK we haven’t confirmed that it’s an exclusive yet,” he said “that’s a question we cannot answer”.

Wait. What? Is it a timed exclusive?

“We haven’t answered that yet and I cannot answer yet” is the reply.

So it’s coming to other platforms?

“I cannot answer yet.” evades Munárriz. “Of course, we will try to make Gylt accessible for everyone. I guess it’s not a design question, it’s more of a business question. Today is not the time to answer that question but rest assured, everyone will be able to play the game.”

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Quoting: OrkultusSo are they planning on making these chromebooks have enough power to run games in steam?

It's possible they are trying to expand how many games can be played by allowing their Chromebook users to fallback to Steam's Remote Play service where Stadia fails.

Quoting: ShmerlIf it will help increasing the number of Linux games, then it's a good development.

My experience with Steam Remote Play and Play Together has been OK at best. Remote Play Together did not work and Remote Play image was distorted, especially when movement came into play. Perhaps the PC I used to stream to was to outdated. But I don't think Google will encourage developers to develop natively for Linux. Instead I think they will try to twine developers into ChromeOS and somehow make it different enough so that it doesn't run on Linux. Outcome can be a good thing (more work on Linux ecosystem) but it can be bad too. I don't want a third walled garden for Linux to compete against.

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Contrary to what some people think I believe Proton is the only light in the tunnel for Linux. I can't stress it enough that if Proton did not come around the situation for Linux would be even worse, for gaming that is. But there are still issues and things that can be better on the platform. EAC and other anticheats are still obstructing many games, many popular ones from working. So how anyone can assess Proton's influence on promoting Linux, when it's still lacking, boggles my mind. There are other issues as well such as bugs. The more robust DXVK and Wine becomes the more powerful Proton will be.

Here are the things I think should happen, and I find it realistic expectations, for helping Linux:

• DXVK and WINE becoming more robust
• VKD3D rising up
• EAC or/and other Anti cheat working. Alternatively Valve's own anti cheat trust matchmaking, which they said they would upgrade (still no news on that)
• Vulkan adoption increasing (Stadia)
• Valve (and gamers) marketing Linux. But first Proton needs to be complete. A complete Proton will run games even with EAC or/and BattleEye and at least DXVK will be as performing as solid as possible. Ideally VKD3D having reached a milestone too (but still WIP)

One way they could market Linux is by involving developers with Proton by taking lower cut from games which become Proton conformant. Vulkan renderer would be at the top of the list of what said games need to be conformant.

EDIT: We will also need Feral and other reputable companies in our space to continue to provide native ports too. Goes without saying their work is also important.

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Quoting: Guest

Quoting: Whitewolfe80Well yes but if you now buy sandstorm are you not vindicating that decision see the linux guys bought it anyway and didnt cost us a dime.

This is EXACTLY my point. Why would any company that sees that Linux users are willing to pay for a Windows game ever make an effort to create a Linux-native version? Heck, if I were a business owner, even I would do the same thing; create only a Windows port, and get the Linux users 'for free'. I just don't see the incentive for any other action. Never have, really.

Except Insurgency Sandstorm does not work through Proton because of EAC. So for this particular case, making the claim that the developers are being lazy is completely void. I don't get what's so hard to understand. Many games, particularly major ones, are not profitable or yields little compared to developing new content for Windows. As consequent of that the developers drop support. Many developers probably aren't even aware of Proton, WINE or Linux (japanese devs I imagine). Many have already made up their mind and will NEVER make their game available for Linux regardless of any petition or outcry for support. I don't see anything nefarious with Focus Home Interactive omiting Linux (and MAC) support to focus on the game and more profitable consoles.

If any complaint I have it is that developers should help out with running games through WINE. For example if there is something in their source code that is important to know for WINE and DXVK devs, they should be nice and provide it with a agreement they won't disclose it to others. Or maybe they can give back some money to Linux users who decide to play a Windows game through Proton. Suppose the game costs $60: You buy and play the game (on Linux) til you no longer are able to refund it, you then receive $10 or $10 of wallet back.

Quoting: EikeThe trouble with both tactics, "No Tux, no bucks!" for more native games as well as Proton for more Linux gamers is that they didn't work. We tried the former one for years, and Linux ports were on a decline lately, then Proton arrived over a year ago, and the number of Linux gamers didn't rise.

I don't see any problem with any of the tactics. If you are able to and like a game that's developed for Linux, your purchase will be a win for Linux. With Proton you are forgetting some things. First, the project isn't complete. One of biggest missing puzzle to be solved is anti cheat. If that is solved many major online games such as FortNite, Apex Legends, PUBG, etc will work or be easier to work around. These are games that many people would switch over for. Lastly, it will take more than a year or two for Proton to increase number of Linux gamers. But one thing is certain, it has helped retain users and convince X people to switch to Linux. For any compatiblity layer, starting at 1% marketshare and trying to make it 5% by itself will be like a slow and difficult task. And it can and will be disrupted by ChromeOs (Stadia) and Windows (Xbox Game Pass and XCloud). So while Linux is starting to become feasible thanks to Proton, other platforms are also on the rise and making it harder to persuade people to switch.

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Quoting: GuestYou're a fan of us not being given support for running a game on our OS like everyone else gets? Great, thanks for that, and for encouraging Windows gaming. Now those of us who support native releases with real Linux support, and those like you paying for Windows games with no Linux support, can all be 2nd class gamers together! <3

Show some respect? He never stated what you claim he has. We all want a game to be properly developed for Linux. If we didn't why would we be using Linux? There are so many games that I've not been able to play because developers never support the platform. And it has been said a million times, we don't have the userbase to justify major games (Call of Duty, Horizon Zero Dawn, Resident Evil to name a few) be developed for us as well.
Even if numbers were enough to turn a small profit...developing new content for Windows most likely gives more.

So if you think it is right for you to demand Focus Home Interactive to provide a Linux support (and continue doing so) I think you come off as entitled. I believe you are a passionate about Linux, but right now is not a point in time that we can demand things. Unless of course Focus Home Interactive has given a iron clad promise to provide Linux port. Assuming they have not done such thing, at most we should hope for the developers to get involved with Proton. If Proton stays consistent and makes more games available to us, hopefully anti cheat issue will be resolved, then most likely a glorious day will come where we will have adequate enough users to demand. But that day is not today.

Quoting: subI have technically the highest respect for Proton and the like.
Yet, I see it as big problem for native Linux gaming and danger for AAA Linux gaming as a whole.
What if we will see a new Direct3D or similar API which will be widely adopted
and no old renderer is supported by most devs?
Now imagine this new API is - for whatever reason (maybe by intention) - extremely hard to reverse engineer and map to Vulkan/OpenGL? Hence, a well supported Proton/WINE layer is not available or will take years until it barely runs.

Proton not only helps games work on Linux but also improves upon Linux ecosystem in small ways AND promotes Vulkan. From Proton post (FAQ):

Q: I'm a developer; I wasn't planning on targeting Linux, how can I best leverage the new Steam Play?

We recommend you target Vulkan natively in order to offer the best possible performance on all platforms, or at least offer it as an option if possible. It's also a good idea to avoid any invasive third-party DRM middleware, as they sometimes prevent compatibility features from working as intended.

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Quoting: rustybroomhandleTo recap the master goals:
- nobody installs software any more, it's all cloud
- most consumers will not use PCs, but closed appliances
- PC gaming in its current form dies

Will any of this happen as planned? Maybe, maybe not. But even Valve is preparing for this possibility.

That's some of my concerns that makes against Stadia or streaming in general depending on who is behind it. I am pretty certain both Microsoft and Google would love to make streaming only option to play games if they could (Xbox One backpedal). With Valve I am in doubt, I think they would give users the choice to have local and streaming.

Further elaboration but off topic

Spoiler, click me

It's frustrating to read people gloat about Stadia being so good and those against it are somehow dumb. Example is the circle post of "No downloads, just right into game". Yes, but good connection scales to downloading as well. Have that and you will spend less time waiting. Many people have good reasons for why Stadia is not good thing. They, Stadia supporters who gloat, are perfectly willing to exchange their control of their games or/and software and seemingly ignorant of the implications it has not for PC in general but to other people who would rather enjoy games locally.

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Quoting: orochi_kyoSince Valve locked the only HL official game in 10 years behind really expensive hardware, both PC and VR headset (first world kids speaks about 200$ headsets on Craiglist, Amazon and Ebay, so sad the rest of the world outside of US have to pay taxes and shipping), this is a good chance of Stadia to shine, Stadia offers PC gamers the chance of playing the latest games on any crappy PC, with a crappy keyboard and mouse or controller.

I think you are being unfair to Valve. It seems like they have production issues, and that's partially why it costs so much for Index. For Half Life, they stated in interview that scaling Half Life Alyx down to flat screens would be very hard and risk watering down the unique experience they created with VR. I don't think they were lying and using VR to sell Index. They also stated the thought of making Half Life 3 was very daunting and they started Half Life Alyx first as a VR experiment and second as a Half Life game. It absolutely sucks though. This has been the first time I've wanted to play VR and I can't afford. It looks really good.

On the topic: This is more or less what I expected. I would be supporting Stadia 100% if it wasn't for the fact I am convinced it will lead to a future where streaming overtakes other ways to play games i.e reducing choices. You can already see the bad signs of it already, we've had EGS with exclusivity and now Stadia has one exclusive game too. And that's just the tip of the ice berg of the implications I believe Stadia will have. Call me cynical or whatever but I know from experience where these things go...

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Stadia can be summed up with this quote:
MacOS User: What did it cost to play games on Linux?
Linux user: Everything

Also the whole "We are not the target audience and it will not affect PC platform" is a load of rubbish. Gylt, a third party game, is already exclusive to Stadia, and you are naive if you think Google would not love to burn regular way to play games to the ground and build more Stadias on top of them. It may not happen in five years or ten, but I'd wager that will be the end goal.

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