Quoting: GuestI'll admit to being disgruntled when these incredibly wealthy companies (and even more incredibly wealthy management) have everything in place, but don't even bother to test the waters. Then you see an indie dev with far less resources release something on multiple platforms, with far better finish, and more creative gameplay.

I can't say I care terribly about companies supporting Linux or not. It's always nice but I had no expectation of Google supporting the platform. I'm more concerned about what Stadia means for Linux and PC platform in general. Many people are going around thinking streaming is the future, when it's just a future. I could say alot more but I will end that subject with this; I've attempted now multiple times to install TWRP properly on my android phone. The first step before I can move on to install MicroG. Why? To degoogle my phone. I don't want to install LineageOS or E OS, I prefer the UI of the stock ROM. While I want choice and freedom to play games way I want and on platform I want we have Google and Microsoft. Recently I saw Microsoft social media account post a image of many consoles with caption "Don't be a fanboy!".

Quoting: GuestI'm not really buying the support costs for GNU/Linux being a thing anymore either. It's not like big budget games have a quality reputation on Windows these days, where it's probably just a crappy console port to begin with. They could probably divert a little marketing money to a GNU/Linux desktop version and they'd reap that back and more with all the free publicity from GNU/Linux users bubbling over general tech forums anyway.

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I think they simply get more money from DLC and such for Windows than supporting Linux. These are money counting companies we are talking about, it's just beneficial for them that they have only Windows to target for PC. If Linux got 20% market share it would mean more work for them, at least initially til their workflow was standardized.

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Quoting: rustybroomhandleWhen Proton does get marketed to developers it will be in the form of a feature complete build target. ie "Here, support this, ktnx"

As for market share etc. Disturbing as it is, Steam China will likely push up the Linux share over time more than the rest of the world.

When Valve proposed Steam machines they met lots of issues on Linux ecosystem to a point they were overwhelmed. Not only that, they had little experience in hardware. If they are going to market Proton they better do it when it's complete. It's not complete right now. DX12 support is not as good as DX11. DXR to VK RT is not complete. Anti cheat also isn't complete. Not to forget Zink, for OpenGL devs, is also not complete.

Right now is a bad time for Valve to market Proton.

Quoting: Liam DaweThat makes more sense. However, feature complete? Any time Windows and DirectX change, it will be playing catch up. I don't think it will be possible to have such a thing.

I'd say if Valve accomplishes what I mentioned above, Proton will be feature complete. There will always be changed or even major feature releases that will make Proton lacking again but if they get the core software done it won't be to long for them to catch up. Microsoft won't be able to dish out alot new features to point Valve devs can't keep up in good time. Take DX11 as an example, most if not all games now work fine through Proton with it. Yes, they have moved on to DX12, but when Microsoft's development reaches a stage they can't do much more to DX12 or other software (and Proton is caught up), there is less changes that can happen that will make Proton as unstable as it currently is with in regards to DX12 and DXR and so on.

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Chromebooks being paired with Stadia is worrying. Gaming on Linux has slow but tangible growth. Latest Proton RC made Nioh 2 playable! Don't forget Cyberpunk 2077 and Death Stranding is also! That's three major games that potential switchers to Linux can be reassured will be playable! I hope I am entirely wrong but I'm concerned that Google with Chromebooks could steal what should be given to FOSS desktop OSes and establish ChromeOS as the Linux OS for gaming. Why switch to Solus, Ubuntu, Arch or any other OS when you can use ChromeOS and get both Proton (I bet it will come) and Stadia with support from a behemoth like Google. Especially with them doing crap like this, really Epic? No GOG or Steam?

Quoting: Liam DaweThe only thing that will push Linux itself higher is hardware, I've said it for years and I will continue to say it.

For that to happen there needs to be a catalyst. That catalyst, gaming on Linux reaching greater state leading to market share increase, will take more time to happen, if at all, with game developers not supporting the platform (whether with WINE or native release). Steam machines is a proof of that, when the future seemed bright many companies invested or showed interest to. But they will never invest again if market share stays the same it.

Google doesn't need to do anything for Linux. But I'd say hardware support would come sooner for Linux if Google contributed with releasing their games natively and encouraging third party developers. Any small contribution will add to Linux ecosystem and draw the platform closer to hardware being sold with it. But they don't want that, FOSS desktops (like System76 laptops), they want ChromeOS laptops being sold.

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Quoting: GuestStadia we do know a little about, and there's been more than one developer to say that if it runs on desktop GNU/Linux, it'll run basically the same as on Stadia. In fact, and I quote, "if you have Linux binaries that don't link to libstdc++ (i.e. use Clang and libc++ instead) and don't use X11/Wayland there is a 99.99% chance that your existing binaries (yes, not just the code, the binaries) will work just fine on Stadia." From flibitijibibo, on porting Celeste to Stadia.

I can't say that's a compelling argument. Celeste, although seemingly a good game, is a small indie game. It's nowhere the size of games like Metro Exodus and Cyberpunk in software complexity. So I'd say basing Stadia games being scaled to desktop Linux on Celeste doesn't come off as convincing. Fortunately Metro Exodus enhanced version is releasing this year, which is likely when it comes to Linux, so won't need to wait long for tangible proof.

Here is some food for thought; if scaling Stadia release to desktop Linux is quite effortless, then what does that say about gaming industry? To me it says they are not only greedy but also corrupt, assuming they aren't corrupt already and aren't safeguarding Windows ecosystem.

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Quoting: MohandevirYou got valid theoretical points, but seriously... Come on guys... The end of PC gaming (or PC altogether) has been announced so many times, in the last 20 years... I'm not afraid in the least.

You should be worried at very least. Change takes time, and it won't happen so suddenly that you will notice it. IPhone sold 2.2 billion units according to wikipedia (Nov 1 2008). Back then there was less predatory practices on PC. The bad practices of microtransactions and lootboxes was more prevalent and bigger on mobile than they were on PC. I'd say the reason why is because many smartphone owners, many who were not gamers, did not have preexisting expectations of games and what should be in them as opposed to console and PC gamers. In less than a decade (aligning roughly with IPhone popularity) the sewer slowly leaked to PC platform and now the platform is a cesspool. In last 20 years streaming had not been as big of a thing as it is now and many of game companies were not as big and as independent as they are now.

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Quoting: Purple Library GuyIt'll work if people turn out to be willing to go there en masse. But if dropping local PC play means losing a bunch of sales, they'll grudgingly go back to it. Software makers of all stripes have been trying to move to subscription models and so forth practically since there's been software, and they only pull it off now and then. So we'll see.

Wouldn't you say the conditions for moving to such models is better this time around? Before streaming began to rise as it has this past few years, there was only consoles. Weak argument to forego local releases on PC platform. But these days they can save themselves the trouble of software and hardware variety by making their games available on Geforce Now or Stadia. Cost cutting and get them that extra money they constantly want.

Quoting: EikeYes, and I never said anything different. You said "there is no reason to not release game both locally and through cloud." There is! Variety of systems, hardware and software wise. I bought a single whitelisted Proton game and only Linux native games otherwise, but that doesn't mean I've got my eyes closed. There are - unfortunately - reasons why people/companies would not release games for Linux despite supporting Stadia. And yes, this is an additional threat for native PC gaming, and especially for native Linux gaming.

I was wrong, and you made a good point. I'm not trying to refute what you said but I'd say the software variety is to a good degree cause by the industry themselves. Take Tim Sweeney as example, for someone who often uses the two words "open platform" you'd think he would direct his company towards Vulkan API but he doesn't. Why? Most likely because he has agreements with Microsoft. It is instances like this that makes developing for Linux to high of a cost.

So the solution to reduce costs for PC is to standardize software for game development. But sadly developers largely don't do that, just look at Vulkan adoption, they gravitate towards software that are bad for consumers in so many of the cases. But I would bet they would never care to adress the issue by standardizing software, e.g striving to make Vulkan the graphics API for game development, because ultimately it comes down to they want money. And why bother making PC better when you can be lazy and rely on streaming.

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Quoting: Purple Library GuyI'm pretty sure Eike meant hardware platform. PC as a platform has a wide variety of hardware configurations compared to consoles or dedicated servers, leading to higher support costs.

This sounds all to familiar. Linux is to difficult to develop for because of the many distributions. Imagine if the industry moved towards such thinking in regards to releasing games on PC..."Sorry but local releases are to costly". As if greed within the industry isn't widespread as it is.

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Quoting: TermyWhats the fuss about? Steam is giving out free keys to the devs with the only catch that they may not sell them lower than they do on steam (with details on sales etc) - while steam still has the same infrastructure-costs for those keys.

I really wouldn't be surprised if Sweeny "motivated" those 5 guys to initiate such a dumb lawsuit that costs us taxpayers unnecessary money -.-

As expected. I thought I was going to agree with this article but it seems it's same old swine wanting to have his apple and eat it too.

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Quoting: EikeSupport costs for a huge variety of systems, compared to cloud servers or console systems.

Here we are on a site dedicated to gaming on Linux, hopeful that one day games will be natively released for the platform, and you raised the point that if developers decide to forego local releases entirely, which Stadia could lead to, then it would be because of support costs assosciated with supporting another platform. That means exclusion of support even for Windows, making it the entire PC platform. You just proved how Stadia can become a bad thing in the long run.

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Quoting: MohandevirI understand and respect your point of view even if I don't agree. I really doubt that cloud gaming will have any impact (good or bad) on the PC. As long as people will ask for local play, it will continue to exist. I for one will never drop it entirely... Time will tell, I guess.

But that will be a issue, why must it become that people will need to ask for local releases? It's objective fact that local play has it's use cases, to such degree that there is no reason to not release game both locally and through cloud. The worst fear I have is that it sets a precedent that will lead to what we have now with microtransactions, where companies think omitting microtransactions and bragging about it is good marketing. Scenario being companies bragging about not omitting a local release.

I wouldn't be so sure of cloud not having a bad impact. Stadia lead many developers pulling their games off from GeforceNow and Judgment is a clear cut streaming exclusive. So there is negative consequences already, at this early of Stadia's growth. So can you imagine how more negative things will be if Stadia became the norm? People often ask for alot things but companies often ignore these requests. There are so many games releases these days that always has a issue relating to monetization, when all people ask for is a quality good release without any crap. They won't listen to gamers who ask for local releases if situation favors their bank. As long as they can get away with it, and gain on it, they will forego a local release for streaming one. And one way Stadia will help them gain more is stopping modding and cheating in single player games. That way people will need to pay them for traineers and other cheats instead of getting it from fellow gamers for free.

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