Quoting: wvstolzingAre they planning to do that?

I don't know I just find that raytracing in older games is a great use case.

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Quoting: ShmerlThat's interesting. I haven't heard anything about TW3 EE. Did Saber also work on TW3 for Stadia? If they did, it could mean they could use Vulkan for EE too. But they'll be stuck with DX12 for ray tracing on Xbox anyway.

There is no info about that but I would be shocked if anyone else got the job other than Saber. They have done 4K and Switch release too, and CDPR's reasoning for giving them the EE job is because Saber is familiar with game's code. Furthermore Saber are one of prominent devs using Vulkan, which I don't need to explicitely say why is important for Stadia.

EE will be another opportunity for CDPR to show their quality. They should mandate Saber to use Vulkan. If Saber uses DX12, which I bet they will, it will be another failure to meet our hopes. I'd like to think it's important for Microsoft to ensure early waves of RT development is focused on DXR, anything else after the tech has been normalized will have higher likelihood of defaulting to DX12. EE will likely be released before Metro Exodus.

People are so hooked up on native vs Proton, that they are forgetting Vulkan adoption. Vulkan seems to have lost, and it seems to me the API is going to lose even on it's own terf (i.e with developers who use it). World War Z and Crysis Remaster by Saber was with Vulkan. At very least we should expect Vulkan renderer. But if we don't see even that I would bet alot that Microsoft had a hand in that.

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Now add raytracing and it will be even better.

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Both GOG and Steam are good places to buy from. Steam and GOG both have DRM free games, with bigger emphasis on it on GOG. Steam, although it requires certain software, is an asset to Linux platform because Valve is contributing alot. You can't go wrong either way. Remember guys if GOG goes down, that will be a big hit to DRM free future of PC platform. Yes, Steam and EGS does have DRM free games too but GOG is more aggressive, and that's what we need.

On topic: I doubt we will see RT. There are four notable developers that could help Linux. CDPR, Id Software, Saber interactive and Deep Silver. CDPR went with DX12. Id Software is now employees of Microsoft. There were alot headlines about Doom Eternal planning to have RT and it will be a technical marvel, but almost a year later and it's still not here. So be on lookout for when it finally arrives, it will be on DX12 first and foremost and Vulkan implementation is poised to become an afterthought. That leaves Saber interactive and Deep Silver, Metro release was DX12. In blogpost they use the word "Ultimate" when talking about raytracing, same as DX12 Ultimate. Coincedence? Highly possible, but I wouldn't be surprised if the developer used that word subconcsiously because DX12 Ultimate.

That leaves Saber interactive, who are currently developing Witcher 3 enhanced edition for CDPR. Enhanced edition is said to bring raytracing among other things. Witcher 3 is using DX11. Despite Saber using Vulkan for World War Z and Crysis Remaster, it's not certain W3EE will use Vulkan. So potential supporters of RT for Linux has been largely eliminated by Microsoft. And that ladies and gentlemen is how you stop momentum.

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Quoting: Liam DaweAnd I'll say for the record again, if everything about Linux gaming ends up relying entirely on Proton and we never see any other kind of "support", then this as a website becomes pointless and I'll just up and quit.

There is strength in numbers. I don't know at what percentage Linux release will be worth it for companies. And by worth it, I mean providing Linux release outweighs making more content for game that would be Windows only. But It would be very strange that if Linux did reach more than five percent market share, that Linux gamers would still be content with playing games through Proton. At certain percentage market share there should be enough people to create enough ruckus that developers will need to listen. If Linux reaches more than five percent the time will be appropriate to practice "No Tux No Bux" more aggressively. And the more market share goes up the stronger that tactic will become. So if Proton does shift the market share, it will also strengthen No Tux No Bux. Because then there would be so many people on Linux that any developer not wanting to listen to Linux gamers, would be affected by this approach. Assuming Linux gamers can come together that is.

EDIT: Right now at barely one percent, I don't believe the time has come to go 100% No Tux No Bux. But at higher market share, I'm definetly going to stop buying games that are only playable through Proton. But before I can practice No Tux No Bux, market share must go up for the tactic to be so effective that it will lead to a turning point for gaming on Linux.

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Continuing a topic brought up in Stadia topic;
1. Proton stops native development
2. Proton is a bad for gaming growth on the platform because you rely on non native software

Tell me, for every one or two major native releases (Metro Exodus and such), because we can establish indies are largely not a issue, what is the ratio of Proton making such big games playable to native releases?
It seems to me that for every major game native release we get like ten that becomes playable through Proton. I really think the argument that Proton impedes native development is a really weak one. Would you trade ten AAA games which plays very well through Proton, to point it could rival the lazy native releases, for one native AAA game? I wouldn't. Because the ten Proton games will bring more users than a single native port does, and that doesn't touch upon quality of the native release.

Second, in the last decade, even with Steam machine push, why has Linux gaming not made it with simply native releases? You want to know why? Noone cares to invest, not the developers and nor does the companies. Steam machines failed yes, but during the years it was around native development was at a high peak. Yet nothing materialized after it. And nothing will without Steam machines.

Remove Steam machines from equation. Nothing happened the last decade to propel gaming on Linux to next level. It stayed dormant as it did before. And the only solution in my opinion is combination of native releases and Proton for the platform to move forward. Proton will be stronger with native releases to supplement it, and vice versa for native gaming. On top of that gaming specific improvement, there will be ecosystem improvements. System76, Dell, Lenovo etc.

I just don't get it. Nothing happened last decade even with the Steam machine push, which brought a bigger number of native releases, although I would question those releases as they seemed to be somewhat cash grab (not excellent native releases). Nothing happened. So what makes anyone think that as things are right now, that gaming on Linux would grow to two-ten market share by itself without Proton? Really what? I reiterate last decade nothing happened. What more proof do you need? Until Linux market share reaches five percent, Proton is vital. At five percent I think Linux gamers can start demanding native releases.

EDIT:
Microsoft has less freedom now to push down on DXVK or others. They themselves are working on OpenGL to DX12. Furthermore they made the phony statement "Microsoft hearts Linux". As if they wouldn't get backlash even without such statements, if they tried to hinder Proton development.

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Quoting: GuestI'll admit to being disgruntled when these incredibly wealthy companies (and even more incredibly wealthy management) have everything in place, but don't even bother to test the waters. Then you see an indie dev with far less resources release something on multiple platforms, with far better finish, and more creative gameplay.

I can't say I care terribly about companies supporting Linux or not. It's always nice but I had no expectation of Google supporting the platform. I'm more concerned about what Stadia means for Linux and PC platform in general. Many people are going around thinking streaming is the future, when it's just a future. I could say alot more but I will end that subject with this; I've attempted now multiple times to install TWRP properly on my android phone. The first step before I can move on to install MicroG. Why? To degoogle my phone. I don't want to install LineageOS or E OS, I prefer the UI of the stock ROM. While I want choice and freedom to play games way I want and on platform I want we have Google and Microsoft. Recently I saw Microsoft social media account post a image of many consoles with caption "Don't be a fanboy!".

Quoting: GuestI'm not really buying the support costs for GNU/Linux being a thing anymore either. It's not like big budget games have a quality reputation on Windows these days, where it's probably just a crappy console port to begin with. They could probably divert a little marketing money to a GNU/Linux desktop version and they'd reap that back and more with all the free publicity from GNU/Linux users bubbling over general tech forums anyway.

(--edit: spelling)

I think they simply get more money from DLC and such for Windows than supporting Linux. These are money counting companies we are talking about, it's just beneficial for them that they have only Windows to target for PC. If Linux got 20% market share it would mean more work for them, at least initially til their workflow was standardized.

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Quoting: rustybroomhandleWhen Proton does get marketed to developers it will be in the form of a feature complete build target. ie "Here, support this, ktnx"

As for market share etc. Disturbing as it is, Steam China will likely push up the Linux share over time more than the rest of the world.

When Valve proposed Steam machines they met lots of issues on Linux ecosystem to a point they were overwhelmed. Not only that, they had little experience in hardware. If they are going to market Proton they better do it when it's complete. It's not complete right now. DX12 support is not as good as DX11. DXR to VK RT is not complete. Anti cheat also isn't complete. Not to forget Zink, for OpenGL devs, is also not complete.

Right now is a bad time for Valve to market Proton.

Quoting: Liam DaweThat makes more sense. However, feature complete? Any time Windows and DirectX change, it will be playing catch up. I don't think it will be possible to have such a thing.

I'd say if Valve accomplishes what I mentioned above, Proton will be feature complete. There will always be changed or even major feature releases that will make Proton lacking again but if they get the core software done it won't be to long for them to catch up. Microsoft won't be able to dish out alot new features to point Valve devs can't keep up in good time. Take DX11 as an example, most if not all games now work fine through Proton with it. Yes, they have moved on to DX12, but when Microsoft's development reaches a stage they can't do much more to DX12 or other software (and Proton is caught up), there is less changes that can happen that will make Proton as unstable as it currently is with in regards to DX12 and DXR and so on.

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Chromebooks being paired with Stadia is worrying. Gaming on Linux has slow but tangible growth. Latest Proton RC made Nioh 2 playable! Don't forget Cyberpunk 2077 and Death Stranding is also! That's three major games that potential switchers to Linux can be reassured will be playable! I hope I am entirely wrong but I'm concerned that Google with Chromebooks could steal what should be given to FOSS desktop OSes and establish ChromeOS as the Linux OS for gaming. Why switch to Solus, Ubuntu, Arch or any other OS when you can use ChromeOS and get both Proton (I bet it will come) and Stadia with support from a behemoth like Google. Especially with them doing crap like this, really Epic? No GOG or Steam?

Quoting: Liam DaweThe only thing that will push Linux itself higher is hardware, I've said it for years and I will continue to say it.

For that to happen there needs to be a catalyst. That catalyst, gaming on Linux reaching greater state leading to market share increase, will take more time to happen, if at all, with game developers not supporting the platform (whether with WINE or native release). Steam machines is a proof of that, when the future seemed bright many companies invested or showed interest to. But they will never invest again if market share stays the same it.

Google doesn't need to do anything for Linux. But I'd say hardware support would come sooner for Linux if Google contributed with releasing their games natively and encouraging third party developers. Any small contribution will add to Linux ecosystem and draw the platform closer to hardware being sold with it. But they don't want that, FOSS desktops (like System76 laptops), they want ChromeOS laptops being sold.

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Quoting: GuestStadia we do know a little about, and there's been more than one developer to say that if it runs on desktop GNU/Linux, it'll run basically the same as on Stadia. In fact, and I quote, "if you have Linux binaries that don't link to libstdc++ (i.e. use Clang and libc++ instead) and don't use X11/Wayland there is a 99.99% chance that your existing binaries (yes, not just the code, the binaries) will work just fine on Stadia." From flibitijibibo, on porting Celeste to Stadia.

I can't say that's a compelling argument. Celeste, although seemingly a good game, is a small indie game. It's nowhere the size of games like Metro Exodus and Cyberpunk in software complexity. So I'd say basing Stadia games being scaled to desktop Linux on Celeste doesn't come off as convincing. Fortunately Metro Exodus enhanced version is releasing this year, which is likely when it comes to Linux, so won't need to wait long for tangible proof.

Here is some food for thought; if scaling Stadia release to desktop Linux is quite effortless, then what does that say about gaming industry? To me it says they are not only greedy but also corrupt, assuming they aren't corrupt already and aren't safeguarding Windows ecosystem.

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