Quoting: MohandevirYou got valid theoretical points, but seriously... Come on guys... The end of PC gaming (or PC altogether) has been announced so many times, in the last 20 years... I'm not afraid in the least.

You should be worried at very least. Change takes time, and it won't happen so suddenly that you will notice it. IPhone sold 2.2 billion units according to wikipedia (Nov 1 2008). Back then there was less predatory practices on PC. The bad practices of microtransactions and lootboxes was more prevalent and bigger on mobile than they were on PC. I'd say the reason why is because many smartphone owners, many who were not gamers, did not have preexisting expectations of games and what should be in them as opposed to console and PC gamers. In less than a decade (aligning roughly with IPhone popularity) the sewer slowly leaked to PC platform and now the platform is a cesspool. In last 20 years streaming had not been as big of a thing as it is now and many of game companies were not as big and as independent as they are now.

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Quoting: Purple Library GuyIt'll work if people turn out to be willing to go there en masse. But if dropping local PC play means losing a bunch of sales, they'll grudgingly go back to it. Software makers of all stripes have been trying to move to subscription models and so forth practically since there's been software, and they only pull it off now and then. So we'll see.

Wouldn't you say the conditions for moving to such models is better this time around? Before streaming began to rise as it has this past few years, there was only consoles. Weak argument to forego local releases on PC platform. But these days they can save themselves the trouble of software and hardware variety by making their games available on Geforce Now or Stadia. Cost cutting and get them that extra money they constantly want.

Quoting: EikeYes, and I never said anything different. You said "there is no reason to not release game both locally and through cloud." There is! Variety of systems, hardware and software wise. I bought a single whitelisted Proton game and only Linux native games otherwise, but that doesn't mean I've got my eyes closed. There are - unfortunately - reasons why people/companies would not release games for Linux despite supporting Stadia. And yes, this is an additional threat for native PC gaming, and especially for native Linux gaming.

I was wrong, and you made a good point. I'm not trying to refute what you said but I'd say the software variety is to a good degree cause by the industry themselves. Take Tim Sweeney as example, for someone who often uses the two words "open platform" you'd think he would direct his company towards Vulkan API but he doesn't. Why? Most likely because he has agreements with Microsoft. It is instances like this that makes developing for Linux to high of a cost.

So the solution to reduce costs for PC is to standardize software for game development. But sadly developers largely don't do that, just look at Vulkan adoption, they gravitate towards software that are bad for consumers in so many of the cases. But I would bet they would never care to adress the issue by standardizing software, e.g striving to make Vulkan the graphics API for game development, because ultimately it comes down to they want money. And why bother making PC better when you can be lazy and rely on streaming.

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Quoting: Purple Library GuyI'm pretty sure Eike meant hardware platform. PC as a platform has a wide variety of hardware configurations compared to consoles or dedicated servers, leading to higher support costs.

This sounds all to familiar. Linux is to difficult to develop for because of the many distributions. Imagine if the industry moved towards such thinking in regards to releasing games on PC..."Sorry but local releases are to costly". As if greed within the industry isn't widespread as it is.

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Quoting: TermyWhats the fuss about? Steam is giving out free keys to the devs with the only catch that they may not sell them lower than they do on steam (with details on sales etc) - while steam still has the same infrastructure-costs for those keys.

I really wouldn't be surprised if Sweeny "motivated" those 5 guys to initiate such a dumb lawsuit that costs us taxpayers unnecessary money -.-

As expected. I thought I was going to agree with this article but it seems it's same old swine wanting to have his apple and eat it too.

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Quoting: EikeSupport costs for a huge variety of systems, compared to cloud servers or console systems.

Here we are on a site dedicated to gaming on Linux, hopeful that one day games will be natively released for the platform, and you raised the point that if developers decide to forego local releases entirely, which Stadia could lead to, then it would be because of support costs assosciated with supporting another platform. That means exclusion of support even for Windows, making it the entire PC platform. You just proved how Stadia can become a bad thing in the long run.

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Quoting: MohandevirI understand and respect your point of view even if I don't agree. I really doubt that cloud gaming will have any impact (good or bad) on the PC. As long as people will ask for local play, it will continue to exist. I for one will never drop it entirely... Time will tell, I guess.

But that will be a issue, why must it become that people will need to ask for local releases? It's objective fact that local play has it's use cases, to such degree that there is no reason to not release game both locally and through cloud. The worst fear I have is that it sets a precedent that will lead to what we have now with microtransactions, where companies think omitting microtransactions and bragging about it is good marketing. Scenario being companies bragging about not omitting a local release.

I wouldn't be so sure of cloud not having a bad impact. Stadia lead many developers pulling their games off from GeforceNow and Judgment is a clear cut streaming exclusive. So there is negative consequences already, at this early of Stadia's growth. So can you imagine how more negative things will be if Stadia became the norm? People often ask for alot things but companies often ignore these requests. There are so many games releases these days that always has a issue relating to monetization, when all people ask for is a quality good release without any crap. They won't listen to gamers who ask for local releases if situation favors their bank. As long as they can get away with it, and gain on it, they will forego a local release for streaming one. And one way Stadia will help them gain more is stopping modding and cheating in single player games. That way people will need to pay them for traineers and other cheats instead of getting it from fellow gamers for free.

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I will take even a more refined Steam controller for 2nd gen. With focus on software profiles and such. Imagine it to be even better fit and comfortable, and when you plug the controller it automatically connects to Emulator and the game you are running and sets up the best possible config for you. That would be amazing i.e software improvements.

Quoting: IzaicI'm willing to sell mine. It's lightly used, but in good condition.

Three fiddy!:tongue:

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Quoting: MohandevirTo me it's clear that Stadia is a good addition to my PC. I play on Stadia, games that I can't play on my PC (compatibility issues).

Sure, but whether it's a good addition for PC platform in regards to free choice is the real question. I understand and relate well to the compatibility issues but I think with Stadia we are trading alot for the convenience of having games be playable now, especially considering that Proton exists. Money we pay to Valve is likely going to be funded into Linux improvements with clear intent. Money you give to Google will go largely to Google's own interests, and if we somehow benefit from Stadia ecosystem it's not because they intended to but because they are using Vulkan or other crossplatform software.

Quoting: MohandevirPersonnally being able to play a game locally or in the cloud on a PS4 or Xbox has absolutely no meaning.

I mentioned that you can play through streaming or locally to make the point that consoles makers are interested, at least for now, to give gamers choice to play the way they like. Stadia's slogan is "One place for all ways we play", yet it's only streaming platform. I am not complaining they should, just highlighting they are giving you one choice that's all. And that choice becomes a big negative when and if Google pays for exclusivity for games.

Quoting: MohandevirYour are a prisoner of Sony and Microsoft's digital services. Same way you are a prisoner of Google when you use Stadia. What you are calling out is a situation that always existed and that Stadia didn't create, but it's worse because of Google? Or because they are late to the party? I still fail to see your point. In fact, I feel that I have more choices then ever before and, at least, Stadia runs on Debian Linux.

Indeed, Stadia and Google's approach is comparable to consoles and their makers. But the issue is that Stadia could direct game developent towards streaming only on PC and possibly hurt gaming on Linux's growth. I'd say what you feel is just a feeling. Google is giving you the choice to play by streaming, but they haven't offered you the choice to play same games natively. They haven't even put in the bare minimum which would be encouraging devs to port their Stadia games to Linux too. Stadia running on Debian is no guarantee that it will mean great things for desktop Linux. Despite many ROMs being based on AOSP, and Android being based on Linux kernel, a mobile FOSS os has not gotten good adoption and it's not easy to free yourself of Google's services and products.

Quoting: MohandevirYou are not talking about me for sure, but I must admit that Google has it's Zealots (which I'm absolutely not), just like Apple, Xbox, Playstation and even Linux users, but it's not something that's about to change. People tend to like to be identified to a banner and think their solution is better than the other because... Why in fact? ...Because they chose it, I guess.

Honestly it seems to me that there are zealots and aside them a good portion of people who are apathetic to zealots rhetoric. I've not seen a post raising the question that Google's push for streaming can be bad for others prefered playstyle. Today Google has barely engaged in exclusivity deals, but imagine if they did as much as Epic, then PC platform would a cesspool of exclusivity. Then they would "force" people to play games through streaming. Judgment will not be available PC so it seems like Google may be ramping up their exclusivity game. Similar happened with Stadia pushing out Geforce Now support.

Quoting: MohandevirI'm not even trying to convince anybody to use Stadia. Just giving my personnal experience with the service, which I find pretty polished and well tought out. Lots of small details that makes it natural to use and well integrated in the Google ecosystem (and it's not even officially out on Android TV). I'm just stating the facts that I witnessed. Is it the best? I don't know. Make your own opinion. All I can say it's the one I prefer, compared to GeForce Now, which I tried and replaced with the Steam Link app... Not going to tell you that you must think like me, but using a Windows host for my Steam games is beyond my strength. I feel dirty when doing that, even when I have complaints about Protondb or Linux in general. :wink:

I haven't used it but from what I've gleaned Stadia seems like the best streaming service option. I just see many reasons not to use Google product. I have no issue with anyone using Stadia, but I will always be honest about it and I think though we gain games in the short term, in long run we may be aiding to worsening of PC platform as a whole. Not a PC platform with alot choice (like Valve gives with Remote Play, native local release and Proton) but one where streaming is largely only choice. And streaming is the ultimate DRM and supports Games as a service model even better.

TLDR: I wish Stadia supporters stopped pretending they are a family with Google and remember that Google buying exclusive rights to games affects fellow gamers. It's not "One place for all ways we play", with Judgment exclusivity it has become "One way for us to play". Streaming, don't like it? Sucks for you. Another prison for you. Also I like to think we who game on Linux are more conscious of DRM and other foul practices and would stand firm against bad practices. We may not experience that Judgment is exclusive to Stadia, because the only choice we have is play it on Stadia or not at all (assuming Judgment was a problem game in regards to compatibility), but Windows PC users will notice the lack of the choice to play the game locally.

More on topic: I wouldn't worry about Stadia just because they are foregoing first party games. If the service stays top quality and Google stays on it, it will push forward. It won't happen anytime soon though, maybe in two to four years?

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Quoting: MohandevirJust curious... In what is it any different than buying a PS4, XBox or Nintendo Switch? Why should it be more damaging? Imo it's a Linux console in the cloud. It's not a PC. Maybe I'm wrong, but I don't see why...

Both consoles have local and streaming. If a third party game is exclusive to Stadia it means it's streaming exclusive. If a game is exclusive to a console, it's a hardware exclusive. The thing with consoles and Stadia is they are quite similar though. The times I've viewed Stadia sub I get a "we are a family let's stick together and nurture this plant" vibe. And people are busy with convincing others to use Stadia. How one could buy into such things when Google could or would buy exclusive rights to third party games, that would affect other gamers choice, is beyond me. Yes, it's great you enjoy Stadia but if Stadia has negative consequences for others, then maybe it's not so great.

Choice is important. You should be able to play the same game with Stadia just as I should be able to play it through GOG or Steam. Unfortunately Google has shown more signs of not wanting to give people choice than the opposite.

If Stadia Pro is not better compared to consoles. That it's a product here to help Google not gamers, then someone should make a wake up post on /r/Stadia and remind them of that.

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One thing that is swept under the rug is how Stadia creates division. There was and is no reassurance from Google that they won't make Stadia successful at expense of local play. By that I don't mean they should allow local play on Stadia, I mean them getting exclusivity for games like Epic. Or doing anything else that's not third party exclusivity that won't erode availability or freedom to play games locally. But who cares about others as long as I get what I want right? Stadia is great! I can stream wohooo! Look at my controller in my gym bag! Wohoo!

In my opinion ensuring others are not negatively impacted by Stadia should be a concern by Stadia fans, but it does not seem like it. They largely don't care, and so I don't care. Division among gamers. Driving industry forward. Yeah right...

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