Quoting: Guest

Quoting: scaine

Quoting: Guest

Quoting: scaine

Quoting: Beamboom

Quoting: DMJCsoftware running in WINE/Proton isn't worth the hassle.

Really? ... Have you tried?

For a vast amount of titles it literary is the exact same procedure as on Windows. Click install, "play" and off you go.

Yeah, agreed. Strange take... unless they mean, I don't know, like ideologically?

And thanks to FSR, while it's not as simple as "click play", I can run some Windows games much better than Windows can. My YT video on Cyberpunk in another thread demonstrates that - if I were playing on Windows, I'd be suffering sub-60fps at 1080p. On Linux, with the FSR fullscreen "hack" on ProtonGE, I'm getting 60fps at 4K. Absolutely immense.

It's not quite click & play for everyone. When it works, seems to work great. When it doesn't, it's just a massive hassle that would make one think to why even bother.

I'm in the latter category; I recognise most are not.
"Proton" has never worked very well for me, if at all. Driving Steam through system wine directly has been fine on the other hand (which is handy for the modified DXVK I now require to have that not segfault on me). So obviously for some people it can be a hassle.

(I mean only to state recognition that "Proton" is really problematic for some people in a technical sense, even while admitting that it's certainly not an issue for the majority.)

I was willing to bet you weren't running a mainstream Ubuntu derivative then, because across multiple PCs with multiple installs of Ubuntu, Mint and most recently Pop, it's pretty much hassle free.

Most people who have such issues are not Valve's target audience, tbh. Nothing wrong with Arch, Fedora or, in your case, Gentoo, but these are problems of your own making, imo.

True, I use Gentoo, and am not surprised when something proprietary doesn't work the greatest (ironically fglrx always ran fine for me!) but equally isn't it a bit against one of the whole points of GNU/Linux to say "use what we say or go away"? Probably sounds harsh what said alound, so I'll try put it another way: it's not a problem of my own making, it's a limitation of (in this case) "Proton" (specifically as bundled with Steam). Such limitations prevents opportunities in growing GNU/Linux because it's going to otherwise become (and apologies to Liam for abusing the site name in such a way) Steam on Ubuntu rather than Gaming on Linux.

I'm not trying to encourage a monopoly... but this has always been Linux's biggest problem. It constantly tries to boil the ocean - so much freedom, so much variety, there's nothing for creatives to "target" and it causes constant, tedious tribal divisions.

So I'm pretty delighted that Valve is doing this - creating a targetable standard and setting the line in the sand. And they're doing it right, using open, collaborative methods.

No one is saying use this or go away. But if I showed up to a bike track on a unicycle, it's a bit rich to complain it's a hassle to use. I chose the unicycle.

(not a great metaphor - I'm not suggesting that anything that isn't Ubuntu is a unicycle... but it's late, I'm tired and I think it gets my point across)

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Quoting: aufkrawall

Quoting: Purple Library GuyAnd isn't FSR sort of . . . more broadly applicable? 'Cause, like, doesn't DLSS have to be "trained" on a per game basis? Whereas, doesn't FSR not have to do that? So in theory, FSR would work with any game, whereas DLSS would work on (any game whose devs have made the effort to "train" DLSS on their game).

DLSS >= 2.x is a generic temporal upsampler: One version works for all current and future games, as long as they provide it with the data it needs (previous frames, motion vectors and perhaps other things). When a game has proper TAA, it already uses this data by itself, so DLSS implementation efforts are within scope for a lots of devs.

Thing is FSR is completely useless for everyone without 4k display, as it looks just terrible with lower resolutions. It's pure postprocessing, so it's easy to implement. But what is it good for when you can use it everywhere, but don't want to regardless...

Though I really hope Intel's XeSS (basically the same as DLSS 2.x, but open source) beats DLSS so we can leave annoying vendor locks behind without compromising on quality (unlike FSR)...

Eh? FSR still works serious magic at both 900p and 720p upscaled to 1920x1080. As I said earlier, I'm playing Cyberpunk at 900p upscaling to 4K. There's definite degradation, but it's still stunning AND it plays at 60fps too.

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Quoting: Guest

Quoting: scaine

Quoting: Beamboom

Quoting: DMJCsoftware running in WINE/Proton isn't worth the hassle.

Really? ... Have you tried?

For a vast amount of titles it literary is the exact same procedure as on Windows. Click install, "play" and off you go.

Yeah, agreed. Strange take... unless they mean, I don't know, like ideologically?

And thanks to FSR, while it's not as simple as "click play", I can run some Windows games much better than Windows can. My YT video on Cyberpunk in another thread demonstrates that - if I were playing on Windows, I'd be suffering sub-60fps at 1080p. On Linux, with the FSR fullscreen "hack" on ProtonGE, I'm getting 60fps at 4K. Absolutely immense.

It's not quite click & play for everyone. When it works, seems to work great. When it doesn't, it's just a massive hassle that would make one think to why even bother.

I'm in the latter category; I recognise most are not.
"Proton" has never worked very well for me, if at all. Driving Steam through system wine directly has been fine on the other hand (which is handy for the modified DXVK I now require to have that not segfault on me). So obviously for some people it can be a hassle.

(I mean only to state recognition that "Proton" is really problematic for some people in a technical sense, even while admitting that it's certainly not an issue for the majority.)

I was willing to bet you weren't running a mainstream Ubuntu derivative then, because across multiple PCs with multiple installs of Ubuntu, Mint and most recently Pop, it's pretty much hassle free.

Most people who have such issues are not Valve's target audience, tbh. Nothing wrong with Arch, Fedora or, in your case, Gentoo, but these are problems of your own making, imo.

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I never played any Might and Magic games. Might give this a shot next year though - perfect Steam Deck material!

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Quoting: axredneck

Quoting: scaine

Quoting: rustybroomhandle

Quoting: TrollwutAny list for games that support this experimental feature? :)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_games_with_support_for_high-fidelity_image_upscaling [External Link]

It's actually pretty depressing how many of these went for the proprietary option. I suppose it got a head start, but still.

Looks like this story is similar to CUDA vs OpenCL where we have two solutions but only one of them is really good but it's proprietary.

In this case though, FSR is superb. Apparently DLSS is "better" (they use very different methods, I think), but again, proprietary, and only works on Nvidia. Frustrating.

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Quoting: Beamboom

Quoting: DMJCsoftware running in WINE/Proton isn't worth the hassle.

Really? ... Have you tried?

For a vast amount of titles it literary is the exact same procedure as on Windows. Click install, "play" and off you go.

Yeah, agreed. Strange take... unless they mean, I don't know, like ideologically?

And thanks to FSR, while it's not as simple as "click play", I can run some Windows games much better than Windows can. My YT video on Cyberpunk in another thread demonstrates that - if I were playing on Windows, I'd be suffering sub-60fps at 1080p. On Linux, with the FSR fullscreen "hack" on ProtonGE, I'm getting 60fps at 4K. Absolutely immense.

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Quoting: rustybroomhandle

Quoting: TrollwutAny list for games that support this experimental feature? :)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_games_with_support_for_high-fidelity_image_upscaling [External Link]

It's actually pretty depressing how many of these went for the proprietary option. I suppose it got a head start, but still.

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Quoting: slapin

Quoting: scaine

Quoting: BeamboomI experience ZERO restrictions on Steam. Zero. Never ever in my 16 years on Steam have I experienced any kind of hindrance. I play anytime anywhere on whatever computer I may have had over the course of these years.
Quite the contrary, what I experience is a free cloud save of all my savegames forever, and a free storage of my entire library of games, ready and available to be installed on new machines whenever, wherever. This service is something I'd PAY for, gladly.

Nothing to add about anything else you said, but c'mon. I'm a staunch Steam defender, but even I've had rubbish experiences with it. I used to travel a lot, so just firing up games on my laptop would often fail if I hadn't launched in the two weeks prior to that travel. I had to do this stupid "launch the game" dance any time I was faced with 5 hours on a train.

Not to mention that if Steam is down these days, a lot of your games are down too. Offline modes works for some of them, but not all.

Yes, Steam's DRM is very low-impact. But it's still, ultimately, anti-consumer. You are paying for it. The data they collect on your gaming habits is how they justify charging devs 30% for their platform. If a product is "free" (Steam itself, is free), then you're the product. I'll still use it, but I won't stick my head in the sand about what it's costing, just like I use an Android phone - you weigh up the convenience against the loss of your privacy. Sometimes it's worth it (Steam), sometimes it's not (Denuvo).

On Steam it depends on game, some don't bother how you play them, some constantly check Internet and refuse to play offline even being SP-only, some refuse being played not in country you bought it in (i.e. no hotel fooling on business trips), some add online requirement, Denuvo, EAC, and custom DRM together to SP game (having some coop PvE) and you constantly have trouble with it doing nothing remotely unintended. So depending on your taste you might have very different experience.

Yep. Luck of the draw though. The nature of the DRM isn't described anywhere that I know of.

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Quoting: Beamboom

Quoting: Purple Library Guy

Quoting: amataiBy the way, what is DLSS ?

It's a weird new-ish graphics technology. Far as I can tell, it lets you run stuff at lower resolution and then kind of pretends they're higher resolution again, giving you the high-res level of detail, almost, but for much less processing cost, so you can get a better frame rate.

.. And what's not to like about THAT! :) :heart:
afaiu this technology should have the potential of seriously extend the life span of a graphics card. I so totally love this.

I'm playing Cyberpunk right now, at 4K, at a stable 60fps, when I couldn't even get 60fps at 1080p before FSR (which is loosely/broadly AMD's "version" of DLSS). I go in-game, stick the resolution down to 1600x900, and FSR kicks it back up to 4K again. Yes, you lose the sharpness a fair bit - especially when you go below 1080p on a 4K screen... but c'mon! Cyberpunk at 4K at 60fps... even with the grain FSR introduces, it's just... stunning [External Link].

(Note that the video is captured in software, so does occasionally blip down to 55fps, but when not recording, it's smooth as butter - so satisfying).

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Quoting: BeamboomI experience ZERO restrictions on Steam. Zero. Never ever in my 16 years on Steam have I experienced any kind of hindrance. I play anytime anywhere on whatever computer I may have had over the course of these years.
Quite the contrary, what I experience is a free cloud save of all my savegames forever, and a free storage of my entire library of games, ready and available to be installed on new machines whenever, wherever. This service is something I'd PAY for, gladly.

Nothing to add about anything else you said, but c'mon. I'm a staunch Steam defender, but even I've had rubbish experiences with it. I used to travel a lot, so just firing up games on my laptop would often fail if I hadn't launched in the two weeks prior to that travel. I had to do this stupid "launch the game" dance any time I was faced with 5 hours on a train.

Not to mention that if Steam is down these days, a lot of your games are down too. Offline modes works for some of them, but not all.

Yes, Steam's DRM is very low-impact. But it's still, ultimately, anti-consumer. You are paying for it. The data they collect on your gaming habits is how they justify charging devs 30% for their platform. If a product is "free" (Steam itself, is free), then you're the product. I'll still use it, but I won't stick my head in the sand about what it's costing, just like I use an Android phone - you weigh up the convenience against the loss of your privacy. Sometimes it's worth it (Steam), sometimes it's not (Denuvo).

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