Quoting: Guest

Quoting: scaine

Quoting: Guest

Quoting: slaapliedje

Quoting: itscalledrealityEr…we’re halfway through the year and there’s very little about fixing multimonitor support, one of the biggest hurdles for those switching to Linux. I’m hoping that suggested promise earlier in the year is actually met. The stitched-together giant desktop just doesn’t work well.

It’s great they learned about color detection so they can apply accent colors and other vanity features but who does that really help?

Was talking to a colleague about this yesterday. Windows still has shit multimonitor support as well. Funny enough, the last time I remember really great multimonitor support was when I had a Matrox card...

Quoting: itscalledrealityNope it's not games, it's definitely how KDE handles multimonitors. When my computer sleeps then wakes again, it does not properly restore my desktop and monitors to their previous state

I don't think sleeping works as well as it should in general, never mind waking up... oh wait, you're talking about computers... my comment still stands.

What issues does Windows have with multimonitor support? I havent seen any

I use multimonitor at work on Windows - it's not exactly a shit-show, but it's not any better than what I had under gnome when I last used multi-monitor, about 2 years ago. Maybe a bit worse - Windows frequently (well, a couple of times a week) just doesn't detect the monitor when it's plugged in. App windows frequently (all the time) start on the wrong window too, Windows seems to prefer the primary (laptop) monitor for just about everything, which just gets a bit annoying. A few times a week, I can plug in my external monitor and Chrome is just... gone. Technically it's still running, but it's shot off into the ether - somewhere miles up to the top-left, I think? I have to close it down and restart it for it to re-appear. Biggest pain though is that when I sit at a new hot-desk at work, there's an identical Dell monitor for me to plug into, but despite that, Windows treats it like it's never heard of such a thing before, and I have to reposition it over to the left of my laptop again. God knows how many of those "monitor position" profiles my registry has stored now. I bet it's HK_LOCAL_MACHINE too, so I'll lose them all when I get a new laptop and I'll have to re-train them all again...

But multi-monitor support is incredibly complex. For example, if you have your apps all laid out nicely across two monitors, then unplug your hub/monitor, all your apps squeeze onto one monitor, which is expected. Then plug the external monitor back in again, everything just stays on that squeezed up screen and you have to lay them all out again, which is a pain. But is that expected? Or should they re-position back to the multi-monitor layout? I know I'd like them to, but I bet there are plenty of use-cases out there where that's a bad idea.

How about when modals pop up - should they use the primary monitor, the monitor of the window creating the modal, or the monitor which has the mouse pointer (what about multiple mouse pointers...)? What about notifications, where do they pop up? What about alt-tab, or Overview?

What about when to resize window contents when dragging a window between two monitors with different DPI settings?

What about multiple refresh rates. Or freesync?

I mean, it's all solvable, and it's frustrating that it's still NOT solved, but it feels like both Windows and all the various Linux DEs still have to figure this stuff out.

Nothing that you describe does Linux do better (as much as I love linux, lets be real here)...I run linux on an Nvidia card, so that means no wayland support - and if you look at common complaints about xorg its that it has atrocious dual screen support, particularly on kde.

Don't even get me started on how neither SDDM nor LightDM support projecting to external screen on boot on a laptop, a basic feature available on windows and one which KDE devs refuse to fix.

Sure. I wasn't saying Linux was better. I was saying Windows is (nearly) as bad.

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Quoting: slaapliedje

Quoting: scaine

Quoting: Guest

Quoting: slaapliedje

Quoting: itscalledrealityEr…we’re halfway through the year and there’s very little about fixing multimonitor support, one of the biggest hurdles for those switching to Linux. I’m hoping that suggested promise earlier in the year is actually met. The stitched-together giant desktop just doesn’t work well.

It’s great they learned about color detection so they can apply accent colors and other vanity features but who does that really help?

Was talking to a colleague about this yesterday. Windows still has shit multimonitor support as well. Funny enough, the last time I remember really great multimonitor support was when I had a Matrox card...

Quoting: itscalledrealityNope it's not games, it's definitely how KDE handles multimonitors. When my computer sleeps then wakes again, it does not properly restore my desktop and monitors to their previous state

I don't think sleeping works as well as it should in general, never mind waking up... oh wait, you're talking about computers... my comment still stands.

What issues does Windows have with multimonitor support? I havent seen any

I use multimonitor at work on Windows - it's not exactly a shit-show, but it's not any better than what I had under gnome when I last used multi-monitor, about 2 years ago. Maybe a bit worse - Windows frequently (well, a couple of times a week) just doesn't detect the monitor when it's plugged in. App windows frequently (all the time) start on the wrong window too, Windows seems to prefer the primary (laptop) monitor for just about everything, which just gets a bit annoying. A few times a week, I can plug in my external monitor and Chrome is just... gone. Technically it's still running, but it's shot off into the ether - somewhere miles up to the top-left, I think? I have to close it down and restart it for it to re-appear. Biggest pain though is that when I sit at a new hot-desk at work, there's an identical Dell monitor for me to plug into, but despite that, Windows treats it like it's never heard of such a thing before, and I have to reposition it over to the left of my laptop again. God knows how many of those "monitor position" profiles my registry has stored now. I bet it's HK_LOCAL_MACHINE too, so I'll lose them all when I get a new laptop and I'll have to re-train them all again...

But multi-monitor support is incredibly complex. For example, if you have your apps all laid out nicely across two monitors, then unplug your hub/monitor, all your apps squeeze onto one monitor, which is expected. Then plug the external monitor back in again, everything just stays on that squeezed up screen and you have to lay them all out again, which is a pain. But is that expected? Or should they re-position back to the multi-monitor layout? I know I'd like them to, but I bet there are plenty of use-cases out there where that's a bad idea.

How about when modals pop up - should they use the primary monitor, the monitor of the window creating the modal, or the monitor which has the mouse pointer (what about multiple mouse pointers...)? What about notifications, where do they pop up? What about alt-tab, or Overview?

What about when to resize window contents when dragging a window between two monitors with different DPI settings?

What about multiple refresh rates. Or freesync?

I mean, it's all solvable, and it's frustrating that it's still NOT solved, but it feels like both Windows and all the various Linux DEs still have to figure this stuff out.

Ha, 'not exactly a shit-show' and then describe a shit-show. I try very hard to make sure I have matching monitors, and that sometimes fixes the issues (especially with scaling, etc). But I have the issue where one of the screens randomly don't work. I've had issues with them blinking on and off (which I think is an issue with the cable, as I switched to using the mini-DP port vs HDMI and that went away).

My set up at home is rather esoteric. 3840x1200 monitor on the bottom, with two 2560x1440 monitors up above. All three support 144hz, but I can't get 144hz on one of them as it's via HDMI. But so far I haven't had these odd issues. I think some of this is based on using a 3080 RTX card?

Well, the thing is, I suspect that it's okay at static multi-monitors, but it's just pretty flaky with hot-desking style of moving your laptop around an office and plugging into various different monitors/meeting rooms. Although at least Zoom Rooms takes care of the meeting rooms these days (no need to muck about with HDMI now). So it's probably inflated a little. And as I say, Gnome had much of the same issues - not remembering window placement, and so on.

Quoting: slaapliedjeSo when will I be able to finally change KDE enough that it works just like Gnome Shell, but with Qt?

I've already emulated it pretty much perfectly as far as I can tell. The only thing missing was the combined window-reveal & search bar, but the Overview matches that pretty nicely now. So, yeah, no going back to Gnome for me.

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Quoting: Guest

Quoting: slaapliedje

Quoting: itscalledrealityEr…we’re halfway through the year and there’s very little about fixing multimonitor support, one of the biggest hurdles for those switching to Linux. I’m hoping that suggested promise earlier in the year is actually met. The stitched-together giant desktop just doesn’t work well.

It’s great they learned about color detection so they can apply accent colors and other vanity features but who does that really help?

Was talking to a colleague about this yesterday. Windows still has shit multimonitor support as well. Funny enough, the last time I remember really great multimonitor support was when I had a Matrox card...

Quoting: itscalledrealityNope it's not games, it's definitely how KDE handles multimonitors. When my computer sleeps then wakes again, it does not properly restore my desktop and monitors to their previous state

I don't think sleeping works as well as it should in general, never mind waking up... oh wait, you're talking about computers... my comment still stands.

What issues does Windows have with multimonitor support? I havent seen any

I use multimonitor at work on Windows - it's not exactly a shit-show, but it's not any better than what I had under gnome when I last used multi-monitor, about 2 years ago. Maybe a bit worse - Windows frequently (well, a couple of times a week) just doesn't detect the monitor when it's plugged in. App windows frequently (all the time) start on the wrong window too, Windows seems to prefer the primary (laptop) monitor for just about everything, which just gets a bit annoying. A few times a week, I can plug in my external monitor and Chrome is just... gone. Technically it's still running, but it's shot off into the ether - somewhere miles up to the top-left, I think? I have to close it down and restart it for it to re-appear. Biggest pain though is that when I sit at a new hot-desk at work, there's an identical Dell monitor for me to plug into, but despite that, Windows treats it like it's never heard of such a thing before, and I have to reposition it over to the left of my laptop again. God knows how many of those "monitor position" profiles my registry has stored now. I bet it's HK_LOCAL_MACHINE too, so I'll lose them all when I get a new laptop and I'll have to re-train them all again...

But multi-monitor support is incredibly complex. For example, if you have your apps all laid out nicely across two monitors, then unplug your hub/monitor, all your apps squeeze onto one monitor, which is expected. Then plug the external monitor back in again, everything just stays on that squeezed up screen and you have to lay them all out again, which is a pain. But is that expected? Or should they re-position back to the multi-monitor layout? I know I'd like them to, but I bet there are plenty of use-cases out there where that's a bad idea.

How about when modals pop up - should they use the primary monitor, the monitor of the window creating the modal, or the monitor which has the mouse pointer (what about multiple mouse pointers...)? What about notifications, where do they pop up? What about alt-tab, or Overview?

What about when to resize window contents when dragging a window between two monitors with different DPI settings?

What about multiple refresh rates. Or freesync?

I mean, it's all solvable, and it's frustrating that it's still NOT solved, but it feels like both Windows and all the various Linux DEs still have to figure this stuff out.

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Quoting: DrMcCoyAyyyy, okay, I strongly disagree with that:

Quoting: lawl

Quoting: principisBesides, that's a very annoying clause ["Modified versions may not be conveyed to others under same name as the original program"] to have... It makes it impossible for packagers to apply distro-specific patches.

Good. You got the point of the clause.

Distro-specific patches are very common and pretty much necessary for distributions to, well, essentially work as intended.

Yeah, it feels like sour-grapes when I read those messages on the Github. Very much a "that's my football, and you're not playing with it" attitude. If Lawl wanted to keep the name, he should have kept his repo up, let the team fork it as Noisetorch-next, and that would be that. But he didn't - he pushed the whole lot into the group's new organisation, then when he didn't like the ideas they had for it, changed the license and is now throwing a hissy fit over the name?

There must be something else going on behind the scenes to drive that behaviour, but I don't know what it is.

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Lo lo lo look at you, hacker. a pathetic creature of meat and bone, panting and sweating as you run through my corridors. How can you challenge a perfect, immortal machine?

God I want this game. The original, and Deus Ex six (!) years later, sandwiching Half Life - these games defined my love for PC gaming, committed me to it completely. Sure, Doom and Quake helped, but these three were actual stories where you were the star. They were phenomenal.

Despite myself, I have such high hopes, based on that trailer. My fingers are very much crossed.

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I'm looking forward to trying out DL2, but it's still got that anti-consumer bs, Denuvo, attached to it, so I'll hang fire for now.

The original was pretty much a masterpiece though. I remember reading about how they employed like 2 guys to do the port - recent uni-leavers, I think? It should have ended in tears for us Penguins, but they did a pretty decent job. Then, more recently, Proton has carried the game the past few years. Amazing story, really.

I'd drop £55 on the sequel in a heartbeat... once they do the right thing! :unsure:

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Shame it's U.S. only. I didn't check to see if they ship over here (to the UK), but that's a sweet laptop and I really wanted to see a GBP price on that thing to compare to what I paid for my last big purchase back in 2016, the Dell XPS Developer Edition.

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Two of my colleagues at work now have their Decks and are both Windows die-hards. They were both blown away by the gaming experience, expecting it to be a big sticking point, and expecting to be installing Windows on it. One of them said to me yesterday that they described my ranting about Linux as "the ravings of a mad man... but he was right!".

Sweet sweet validation.

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Quoting: setimeseHi, guys.

Do you happen to know can I use Loupedeck Live under Linux?

I found it when searching for Elgato's stream deck alternatives, but the writer of the article https://streammentor.com/stream-deck-alternative/ [External Link] couldn't help me.

I thought of ordering it, but won't if it's noncompatible with Linux.

I doubt that would work. These Elgato devices are absolutely non-functional bricks without the software to drive them. For the Streamdeck that's either Boatswain or streamdeck-ui, but I don't see any mention of the Loupedeck in those tools. Audio controls would be a very different set of interfaces to support.

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Quoting: slaapliedje

Quoting: scaine

Quoting: slaapliedjeI knid of think of the story of the rabbit and the turtle. Canonical is the rabbit in this, trying to hurry up and get to the end without all the planning and development, so they can get something out quicker, but is a mess underneath. Where Redhat is slow and methodical and ends up winning in the end.

Wow, more casual Ubuntu-bashing, eh? Upstart replaced the SystemV init system in 2006 and was used by various distributions (including Redhat, ffs) for about 7 or 8 years. It was instrumental in pushing the start up times of Linux from the 30sec+ norm in those days to the sub-10s we have now. Iteratively, it was surpassed by SystemD and that's fine. That's good, that's what makes Linux better, over time. Upstart wasn't "a mess underneath", nor was Mir, nor Unity, nor Snap, nor many of the other truly exceptional, innovative things Canonical have contributed over the decades they've been around.

Occasionally they did indeed put out duds. That's also fine. As long as we're all running Linux, we're all in this together.

Although from the comments on this thread, you'd hardly fucking think it. :sad:

The problem with Ubuntu is they think of people as Ubuntu users, not as Linux users. Upstart was used briefly in Fedora, It was never used in RHEL. Snap is a mess. Unity was... meh.

Briefly? Like 5 releases briefly? I've never thought of five years as a brief time, I have to admit. It was also a beta option in RHEL for a similar time, but you're right, it was never adopted, since start-up time on a server O/S is pretty insignificant compared to the POST checks in most Enterprise environments. I vaguely remember Debian considering it too, for quite a while, but I can't remember their reasons for not adopting it. Back then, their focus was and still to a large is, servers.

But anyway, my point is that Upstart was very well thought out - a fully asynchronous service management/init system with a simple interface, massively extendable, yet completely backwards compatible with SysV.

Snap is a mess, is it? Based on what?

Unity was meh? Based on... ah, okay. Your opinion, I suppose, which is fair enough. Opinions differ. Mine was/is that Unity is a great example of Canonical's innovation - reacting to the options in front of them at the time and, crucially, doing something about it. Back then (around 2010), Gnome Shell - now that was a mess. A wholly forced, non-configurable change in workflow. Canonical had to react to that, and Unity was born. It was a brilliant half-way house between gnome 2 and shell. It was, itself, also a bit shitty until the 2012 releases, but that's iterative development for you.

Also back then, remember, Canonical were pushing the idea of a converged mobile & desktop experience. The "Edge" phone was coming, powered by Unity. Incredible vision, when you realise this was twelve years ago. I remember being blown away by the possibility of using my phone as a dashboard screen on my desktop, and resizing, mobile-aware apps - something we take a little more for granted these days, but absolutely mind-blowing at the time.

But I doubt any of this is convincing you, slaapliedje. Pretty sure you've made up your mind about Canonical for reasons I certainly can't fathom. But there's some context for why I'm repeatedly impressed by Canonical and what they've brought to the Linux desktop.

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