Quoting: SalvatosAnd just like that, another debate is aborted without consideration for its potential because someone didn't feel like carrying it on :cry:

Debate?? This is just people spewing opinion. No-one is going to change minds on this stuff. Not only isn't this place to do it, I know that words won't change people's blinkered opinions on this stuff.

I mean, half the replies I started reading, thought "christ on a stick", skimmed the rest for personal attacks, then tried to forget. Everyone who has access to this site... they're all (myself included) so unbelievably privileged, we have no right to voice our opinions on this subject. We lack the context and (hopefully) life experience of being able to contribute to this "debate".

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Quoting: GroganSorry, but that Chrome UI is bloated rubbish. I can't stand it. You think that's light weight?

It's also fragile in that it gets broken due to library changes. Steam bundles libraries that have to interface with your system. APIs change, Chrome UI breaks.

Yes, I have had it happen. A recent example was harfbuzz/freetype and it broke the user interface.

Bloated how? Rubbish how? No, it's definitely not lightweight - not sure that comment was aimed at me, but I never said it was lightweight. Indeed, I agreed it's a kludgey interface. It's a long-way from a perfect user experience, for sure.

As for library changes breaking, I'd suggest changing distro - I also had lots of weird stuff on Manjaro, to the point it barely lasted a fortnight on my PC before I moved on.

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Happy Birthday GOL! Lucky 13. Here's to another baker's dozen!

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Quoting: GroganSteam is really an awful program on Linux. It should get a complete rewrite instead of the cobbled together kludge that it is.

All its gyrations and spinning wheels on startup, culminates in an absolutely sickening, bloated, fragile, chrome browser-based UI.

I'm not sure having the source code to the client would help you :-)

I don't think anyone could argue that it's not "cobbled together kludge", but I don't see what you mean by "bloated" or "fragile". I can't think of many features it offers that I don't use (pretty much the reason I'm a Steam-focused gamer), and it's never crashed on me in coming up 9 years of every day gaming, so I'm not seeing "fragile" at all.

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Quoting: Purple Library Guy

Quoting: scaine

Quoting: mr-victory

Quoting: finaldestI am looking at you, Paradox

Does Paradox implement non-Steam DRM? Why are you looking at Paradox?

Because the Paradox business model is based entirely on DRM. If they implement this, and you resent Denuvo enough to avoid buying anything encumbered with it, then this will affect a LOT of DLC.

For example - Surviving Mars is £28, but its DLC is another £80. City Skylines is £23, but its DLC comes to a cool £160. Crusader Kings is free... but (brace yourself) has £220 of DLC available.

I actually don't mind the model - I like that they support their older games with constant expansions (unlike Ubisoft [External Link]), and at the end of the day, you buy what appeals to you. But that's a lot of DLC to apply DRM to.

While the Paradox business model is certainly based on selling a bunch of DLC, as far as I'm aware they don't even have DRM on the base games, let alone the DLC, so I don't see how you can say their business model is based entirely on DRM. At least, I'm pretty sure I've played Stellaris off-line.

Anyway, aren't the DLC DeNuvo are talking about more like all the stuff people get for aesthetics or pay-to-win in free-to-play games? Seemed to me it was more like that, making sure you can't copy what you get from microtransactions. No doubt it would work for real DLC too, but I feel like that isn't really the focus.

Oops, I meant DLC. Their business model is based on DLC, and no, they don't (yet) use DRM, but I was suggesting a hugely negative impact if they did. Apologies. Goddam TLAs... :grin:

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I'd buy Deathloop at full price if it didn't have Denuvo. Also, Dying Light 2.

Otherwise, I think I'm pretty lucky that most of what Denuvo gets pushed onto tends to feature some kind of anti-cheat anyway or is a seasonal sports games like FIFA, neither of which interest me.

But huge Arkane Studios fan, so Deathloop really hurts.

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Quoting: mr-victory

Quoting: finaldestI am looking at you, Paradox

Does Paradox implement non-Steam DRM? Why are you looking at Paradox?

Because the Paradox business model is based entirely on DRM. If they implement this, and you resent Denuvo enough to avoid buying anything encumbered with it, then this will affect a LOT of DLC.

For example - Surviving Mars is £28, but its DLC is another £80. City Skylines is £23, but its DLC comes to a cool £160. Crusader Kings is free... but (brace yourself) has £220 of DLC available.

I actually don't mind the model - I like that they support their older games with constant expansions (unlike Ubisoft [External Link]), and at the end of the day, you buy what appeals to you. But that's a lot of DLC to apply DRM to.

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Quoting: AppelsinThat’s a common misconception

That's exactly what I meant by "fear of piracy". I think you're pointing out the difference between early release piracy and long-term piracy? I think?

But it's all piracy and there have been quite a few studies (or at least polls) like the one covered here [External Link], that show that the people who pirate games wouldn't (or can't) actually buy the game anyway, so it's all bullshit. Indeed that particular study suggests that piracy increases sales - an outcome unique to the gaming industry.

All DRM does is piss off paying customers and spread misery amongst the people who can't or won't buy the game anyway.

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Quoting: PublicNuisanceI refuse to buy games with Denuvo on principle even if they work with Linux. This will be no different.

Yup, any game that uses any Denuvo product is dead to me.

Publishers don't care - they're buying the snake oil out of "fear of piracy", so losing a few sales to people like me won't bother them, but I like the irony that Denuvo market their shit "product" on the basis that it protects sales, and I'm living proof that the opposite is true.

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Another case of someone completely missing the point of what I wrote, and in this case, trying to put words into my mouth (or into my text area, as it were).

Well shit, I'm done. Can't contribute to a discussion without that happening. Too many people are far too eager to go nuts at me instead I guess. I mean, how dare I have what's viewed as an opposing opinion (whether it even is or not).

I'm sad to see you go, Mirv. That last sentence is a bit ironic though, eh? I have an opposed opinion to you, how dare I?

I always enjoyed what you brought to the table - a developer's view of Linux gaming, but still with a gamer's perspective. I'll miss your chat, although I stand by what I said about Microsoft.

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