Kind of neat. I actually got a Prey/Penumbra vibe off some of it.

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Quoting: Philip550cKeep on doing it, I dont want to shut you up. I was just hoping that you can see that some of us have given up on the DRM free hope and have instead enjoyed playing the DRM games, I just dont see it as a big deal because at the end of the day its just games.

I fully recognize that, but I don't subscribe to that view, so the fact that others have come to that decision does not really affect my own thoughts on the matter that much. I recognize your reasons, I just don't buy them for myself.

Quoting: Philip550cI love reading the things you write about, Im not trying to step on your beliefs and I would probably enjoy you as neighbor or something, this wasnt meant to be a personal attack.

The problem here is that you were asserting I was trying to take your freedom's away, which can be seen as a fairly serious charge. Granted, I am alleging that to when it comes to DRM, but there is a difference between picking on an institution and alleging that against a person, at least in my mind. Still, thank you for clarifying.

Quoting: Philip550cI have seen developers on forums say that linux users are only interested in freedom and nothing else, so I am worried that I will never get the desktop OS that I dream about. I see that is your concern as well, just a different dream.

The thing you got to remember there is that if the developers really don't want to be here for whatever reason they are not going to stay or even treat us very well when they are here. Your own point about some of the developers involved in some the Humble Bundles not seeming all that interested in being properly cross-platform or DRM free already exemplifies that. I would much rather have developers releasing games for Linux because they want to rather than trying to cater to those who don't. That way these developers will release better Linux games, treat us better, and subsequently be treated better in return.

Quoting: Philip550cSorry to cause such an argument but as far as originality your stance is the main stance in the linux world, so I dont see how its original?

Well, we could argue which is the mainstream opinion until we are blue in the face, but as far as I can tell I seem to be standing from the much more marginalized position. And it was the phrasing of your arguments and not necessarily the arguments themselves that I found to be hackneyed, and too similar to a lot of the arguments I have heard against similar stances in the past (which is also part of the reason I took such an exception to them).

Quoting: Philip550cAlso I do family farming as well.

Okay, PM me and we can compare experiences. :)

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Quoting: muntdefemsOn the other hand, flocks of Linux users happily embracing Steam's DRM and thus forcing indie developers to get on that platform (often neglecting other ways of digital distribution) are totally harmless to us DRM-free lovers... :huh:

I guess Hamish would be as happy as I'd be if every Linux game were released both with DRM and DRM-free, effectively granting everyone their freedom to choose. But unfortunately this is not the case and the future doesn't bode well in that respect. :(

Yes, and that is another reason I love RWS - most of the technical updates to their Steam games are actually going to moved back into the Desura versions at some point, barring things that are specifically tied to Steamworks of course. Awesome people all round. :)

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I am sorry, but I am not going to moderate my beliefs or views simply because "companies [don't] like it". Nor am I going to be arrogant enough to assume that people are going to (or even should) take my comments as representing the whole Linux community, or even merely GamingOnLinux for that matter (and I would like to take a moment to thank Liam for allowing me to voice my views as loudly and boisterously as I am, even though I sure as hell know he does not fully agree or follow them). If you are worried about what I am saying, then I am sorry but that is your problem, not mine. My concern is to stay true to myself, my own values, and my own conscience, and by doing that I am not violating or using anyone's freedoms but my own.

And I would hardly say I was "raining on your parade" - I do not go to every Steam related article just to blast it, and only bring up my concerns with it when it is pertinent to the discussion. If I did otherwise, then I would be a troll. But I don't. I do moderate my opinions and fears enough that I do manage to keep a good enough code of behaviour (enough that I do not violate forum rules certainly) but that is about as far as I am willing to go. I am not going to moderate my views because someone may get a bad impression of me. If they take me, one man, to represent the whole Linux community then again, that is their problem, not mine. And Valve is not something I think that is really going to care about what I post. So I do not think you even have to worry.

And about me also being reactionary, certainly I am to an extent. But I like to think I take a bit more time to frame my arguments than that to at least allow them to be somewhat original. Certainly passion rules much of my words, but I do like to think I try and guard myself from them to some extent. What bothers me the most though is that I keep getting nailed to causes which used to be more of the norm but are now a complete struggle to keep going (DRM free gaming, family farming, etc...). I would much rather be a pure activist any day - at least then you are not fighting the decay of something you care about. And that is what I pity about RMS the most - he has been doing that for thirty years.

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That is quite a rant you got there, but it is hardly original. I have heard it all before. It is just another reactionary response to any kind of criticism.

This notion that I, by my stating of problems that are related to Steam, am somehow threatening your freedom to use Steam is depressingly prevalent. It is almost as if you believe my words are going to suddenly infect your computer and delete all of your DRMed titles out of existence on the wish of my merest whim. Words can never take your freedom away, thoughts can never either - actions can. So unless you see me writing such a piece of malware to take out your Steam accounts, I suggest that you take a step back and realize that there is a difference between criticism and an infringement of your rights. The fact that you try and blur the lines between the two is actually somewhat dangerous.

And again, I am not tackling the subject of free or open source games here. So you can banter on all you like about how SuperTuxKart ruined your life but that will never be pertinent to the argument.

Addressing your Humble Bundle comments, again, you can not simply wash away the fact they stood for more by blindly asserting they never did. Granted, you are indeed correct in saying that a lot of the developers involved honestly could not give a damn about it (which is part of the reasons a lot of the ports were so half-hearted), but the Humble Bundle guys themselves did openly and plainly assert that they were doing this for a wider cause, and indeed did seek support under those grounds. It was about more than just the charity, and it really does get on my nerves when people use charity as a blind for other less defensible actions, like how charity is often used to justify cutting valuable social programs and services (the Niall Ferguson argument, ugh...) or other ad nauseum.

As for what I stand for, I stand for what I have said. I wish to support DRM free gaming, and yes, I am going to do that by pointing out the flaws present in popular DRM systems. If that really bothers you, if that really gets to you, than you really need to examine your own motives, not mine. I stand for DRM free gaming just as much as I stand for native Linux gaming - and you can not silence me for that. After all, standing up for what some consider to be the minority opinion is what you yourself have been doing all of these years.

When you criticized Windows, were you taking people's "freedoms" away? Were you merely "complaining that a company isn't doing things the way you want"? If you have ever promoted an opinion that was counter to someone's else's, were you taking away that person's freedom to express it? No? Then you should not be taking such a huge exception to mine. Unless something I have said has actually really gotten to you and you just don't want to admit it.

(And my apologies to everyone if this sounds a little too combative, but I am really sick of these weak and repetitive arguments. I really have to pity RMS, I really do...)

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It's a bit unfortunate Steam dominates all hardcore PC download sales so heavily it's really too big a risk for us to do hardcore stuff without access to Steam.

Monopolies, eh? :(

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That's fine as far as it goes - and if the Humble Bundles never had pretensions of anything greater I honestly would not be writing these long angered tyraids about it. But the Humble Bundle made you feel like you were a part of something greater, and that was not just my impression of it, they deliberately advertised it as such. To see them act like everyone else in the end does hurt the reasons why we were so generous to them, and as I have said before, it dulls their original message to a blunt and chipped knife edge, as it shows that not even them are truly willing to believe it or follow it. :(

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Made this an Editors Pick since it has certainly made my week, and I think it has quite heavily contributed to Cheeseness' as well. ;)

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I just checked with Toploader over at RWS and he did confirm that the bulk of the non-Steam dependant features from the Postal and Postal 2 releases will also be making their way to the Desura versions as well. I do not know if this finally validates some of the Steam trickled down arguments that I have been hearing or just goes to further prove how awesome RWS is. :)

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The Holomatch port was actually someone kludging the game to work on the Quake3 source code. That being said, it actually works pretty well.

As to the other things you have linked to, those are merely the source code to the Modding SDK released under a restrictive license, and as such it would be useless when it comes to making a proper source port.

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