Quoting: Guest

Quoting: ArtenYou know, what owner can? Chose which contribution they accept. If they refuse, cotributor can fork, but he can't force intel accept his work.

Of course but if you don't want to accept AMD hardware contributions then you don't write exactly this:

"welcomes all contributors to improve the project"

Quoting: Guest

Quoting: ArtenYou know, what owner can? Chose which contribution they accept. If they refuse, cotributor can fork, but he can't force intel accept his work.

Of course but if you don't want to accept AMD hardware contributions then you don't write exactly this:

"welcomes all contributors to improve the project"

Contrary, i write exactly that. AMD can bring some optimisation from which can benefit Intel HW, but for everythink from which intel HW haven’t profit but AMD does i try find a PR reason to not acept it. But that only if i have strong position, like if my distro is only one officialy suported by Steam.

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Quoting: Guest

Quoting: ArtenI don’t think they need hiding. If they can say “this way is beter for our CPU”, then its ok. Benchmark is actual state. Now clear linux isnt officialy suported by steam, if that change...

The scenario that you describe is actually a reality right now. Clear Linux is already highly tuned for Intel platforms. And it's still the best option for AMD hardware.

Can you mention something specific that will change the current situation?

I said that i can be paranoid. I only think it is not great idea. I haven't any proof, only hunch.

Quoting: Guest

Quoting: ArtenI don’t think they need hiding. If they can say “this way is beter for our CPU”, then its ok. Benchmark is actual state. Now clear linux isnt officialy suported by steam, if that change...

I did some additional research and I found this information:

Clear Linux OS is composed of many different open source software projects and welcomes all contributors to improve the project.

You know, what owner can? Chose which contribution they accept. If they refuse, cotributor can fork, but he can't force intel accept his work.

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Quoting: Guest

Quoting: ArtenI don't like the idea of ​​an intel controlled distro used as a distribution recommended for games. They may try look beter then AMD. Choose optimisation which help them but hurt Ryzen,... Or maybe i'm paranoid.

How would they hide this in an open-source system? And I think that the reality paints a different picture. Clear Linux is the fastest system for AMD hardware: Benchmarks Of OpenMandriva's AMD Zen Optimized Linux Distribution Against Ubuntu, openSUSE, Clear Linux [External Link]

I don’t think they need hiding. If they can say “this way is beter for our CPU”, then its ok. Benchmark is actual state. Now clear linux isnt officialy suported by steam, if that change...

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Quoting: Guest

Quoting: TheSyldat

Quoting: GuestIs it really because of the decision to drop 32bit OS support? Nobody, literally nobody, especially not Valve's target audience, is still using a 32 bit OS unless they just don't know any better. I think it's more because they already have steamOS and ubuntu is falling out of fashion anyways.

Again they are not just dropping the 32 bit flavor , they are freezing the 32 bit multilib in terms of update (essentially deprecating it ) sooo as a result a lot of your games on steam won't work out of the box on newer versions of Ubuntu but more importantly even after trying to get the 32 bit libs it might still not work all that well because they're not updating them anymore either .

Oh damn, I mean I get why canonical would want this, 32-bit should basically only exist for legacy applications, modern applications should not be relying on it, and theoretically on a modern OS you should never need to use 32-bit libs, but there's always some legacy application creeping around somewhere that relies on it, and there's always some stupid developer that didn't bother compiling for 64 bit here and there.

I mean this kinda needs to happen, but maybe it's a bit ahead of it's time, this decision.

Not only legacy application, but also applications with legacy code which is not 64bit compatible - there are old project with huge codebase. Or for some instance for application for which is 32bit better. Here is post from enemy camp developer about their visual studio (2019 is still 32bit aplication, i asume point are still valid, or their codebase is realy incompatible) [External Link]

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Quoting: liamdawe

Quoting: Nevertheless

Quoting: GuestMaybe Shuttleworth still plans on a Canonical Initial Public Offering (IPO) in 2019. It would make Ubuntu more attractive if they don't focus on the 32 bit libs but on profitable projects instead.

I think that it's time for Arch, Manjaro, Debian or Fedora to become the new leading OS for the desktop.

And I also like Clear Linux OS as a replacement for Ubuntu because it is generally the fastest system and because you have collaboration potential with Intel. And Clear Linux also works very fast on AMD hardware.

There will be some initial problems with Nvidia drivers and other issues but I think that Clear Linux OS can be a perfect replacement for Ubuntu in the long term.

It will become clearer when Clear Linux adopts KDE Plasma.. .. Holy f.. it already has!
https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=clear-linux-kde&num=1 [External Link]

Clear Linux becoming more consumer orientated, adopting KDE, Valve hiring for Kwin...hmmm...

I don't like the idea of ​​an intel controlled distro used as a distribution recommended for games. They may try look beter then AMD. Choose optimisation which help them but hurt Ryzen,... Or maybe i'm paranoid.

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One think for 64bit zealot. I work as programmer in company developing accounting application witch development began on Win 95 with MFC and is one of most used accounting application in my country. We are not able to “just build it for 64bit”, code is not compatible with 64bit, there are 20 years of legacy code from time when 64 bit has been sci-fi on desktop, where in some place it relies on pointer size 4 bytes and similar 32x64bit conflicts. It is not linux application, but i think that there must be linux desktop application with similar problems, or someone can run it under wine and there are countless similar business application witch have same problem. And one more think from windows world, Microsoft have IDE Visual Studio 2019. 32 bit application with some parts running in separated 64bit processes, reason? Legacy code. If linux want to be on desktop, then linux need support applications with legacy code without ability 64bit build.

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Quoting: mphuZ

Quoting: ArtenMacOS as different case. When Apple remove 32bit support, there is no other way.

And? I still do not see the arguments why Valve should continue to support macOS. Not only because of the rejection of 32-bit support, but in general.

Money? 3.26% of their users use MacOS, for linux it is only 0.84%. For them its only minimal investment. There is no mac proton, no investment into OS and driver development, thats all on Apple side. Valve can rebuild into 64 and blacklist 32 bit games on new MacOS and wait for some money from Feral ports and some another game. All hate from not suported 32bit can be targeted on Apple.

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Quoting: mphuZOK. Let's see if Valve will be consistent in their decision:
https://appletoolbox.com/2019/06/macos-catalina-and-your-32-bit-apps [External Link]


MacOS as different case. When Apple remove 32bit support, there is no other way. You want play Duke Nuke 3d? Valve on Mac can say "It Apple thing. We have hands cuffed. But you can be blamed, you know, Apple do this regularly, remember PowerPC and you chosed MacOS" but in Ubuntu case, Valve recomended distro and now what? I like to play old game sometimes. Yes they can build Steam client for 64bit. Now i think valve start distribute 64bit steam, and change officialy suported distro to another. For wine, i don't know what they do. CodeWeavers need their solution support 32 bit windows app, because without that they are done. "Your acounting windows software is 32bit? And you use ubuntu? Great, that we cant do... can you pls pay for nothink?"

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Quoting: DerpFox

Quoting: Ehvis

Quoting: DerpFoxThe full pack should have been at 500€ MAXIMUM to be interesting. And at that price it would still have been really expensive. And a good price would have been 300€.

I agree! And my house should have cost no more than €10000, because that would have been a good price!

No, its just a comparison with the other products in the VR segment that are here or to come. 1000€ is way over priced where most of the other VR sets are sitting between 300€ and 700€. At this point its not even a question of spec, the product just won't sell. Valve have invested so much time and money in that project and all the related games, if no one is buying its just a wasted investment.

At a 700€ price the HTC Vive already have great difficulties to sell. the best seller is currently the Playstation VR priced at 300€ and even at that price people think twice before buying one.

If Valve want to penetrate the VR market they wont make it at 1000€. 500 or 300 might seem low but that is were the others are. I have a couple friends who follow the VR news and they were until today hesitant on what they will buy as their next VR Kit. It was between the Oculus Quest set and the Valve Index. Now they have their answer they will go for the Oculus.

I'm sorry but Valve have already lost, I bet next year this time they will announce they stop production of the Index.

Quoting: DerpFox

Quoting: Ehvis

Quoting: DerpFoxThe full pack should have been at 500€ MAXIMUM to be interesting. And at that price it would still have been really expensive. And a good price would have been 300€.

I agree! And my house should have cost no more than €10000, because that would have been a good price!

No, its just a comparison with the other products in the VR segment that are here or to come. 1000€ is way over priced where most of the other VR sets are sitting between 300€ and 700€. At this point its not even a question of spec, the product just won't sell. Valve have invested so much time and money in that project and all the related games, if no one is buying its just a wasted investment.

At a 700€ price the HTC Vive already have great difficulties to sell. the best seller is currently the Playstation VR priced at 300€ and even at that price people think twice before buying one.

If Valve want to penetrate the VR market they wont make it at 1000€. 500 or 300 might seem low but that is were the others are. I have a couple friends who follow the VR news and they were until today hesitant on what they will buy as their next VR Kit. It was between the Oculus Quest set and the Valve Index. Now they have their answer they will go for the Oculus.

I'm sorry but Valve have already lost, I bet next year this time they will announce they stop production of the Index.

Or they can wait for steam sales. We dont know sales price. This price can be for early adopters.

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Quoting: sub

Quoting: Arten

Quoting: subStore says 1.1 kEuro (full kit).

Too expensive for me.

It's a pity, they can't subsidize the hardware. :/

My threshold for a full kit would be ~600 Euro.

Epyc store certainly sabotaged money income. I do not know if they would subsidize it if there is no epyc store but it would be more likely.

Don't think this has anything to do with Epic's store.

If you can't/don't lock the software to your store,
subsidizing is not reasonable.

As Valve is using (afaik) open APIs and you can use Index without Steam lock-in, subsidizing would be at least dangerous for Valve - if not stupid. Think of subsidizing expensive hardware that some people use but without using your store that should amortize the subsidizing.

Not sure SONY did it with their VR, but in that case subsidizing would make sense.

Quoting: sub

Quoting: Arten

Quoting: subStore says 1.1 kEuro (full kit).

Too expensive for me.

It's a pity, they can't subsidize the hardware. :/

My threshold for a full kit would be ~600 Euro.

Epyc store certainly sabotaged money income. I do not know if they would subsidize it if there is no epyc store but it would be more likely.

Don't think this has anything to do with Epic's store.

If you can't/don't lock the software to your store,
subsidizing is not reasonable.

As Valve is using (afaik) open APIs and you can use Index without Steam lock-in, subsidizing would be at least dangerous for Valve - if not stupid. Think of subsidizing expensive hardware that some people use but without using your store that should amortize the subsidizing.

Not sure SONY did it with their VR, but in that case subsidizing would make sense.

I dont think so. You dont need lock in if they controll majority of market. Withou Epic store, who can use it? gog? Before Epic, Steam have enaught strong position for that. Its not like PS used as part of supercomputer when sony subsidied it, and there can by limitation like subsidied only for steam acounts which buyed games for more then xx€ or somethink.

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