As I've said before - Linux sales have decreased annually the past 5 years. Both in relative and absolute numbers. It makes [zero] business sense to support it unfortunately. :(

Clearly, if they port it, they releas it. Google, this is your chance to make linux gaming better. If they port it for stadia, we get more games on linux...

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Quoting: Guest

Quoting: liamdawe

Quoting: GuestIt's been almost a year since Proton came out (August 2018).
Where is this fabled growth in market share? Did we even reach 1% of Steam users?
The only thing Proton is doing is strengthening the position of Direct X as the only viable APIs in PC games development, no need for SDL, Vulkan and so on... there is Proton after all!

A few things to note, Proton has been "out" for nearly a year, but it's still very much hidden on Steam. Unless you're going looking for it, you don't really know it exists. It still has a lot of work ahead of it right now, it's early days. If anyone seriously expected a shift in behaviour in less than a year, they're not being realistic in any way.

OK then, one year is not enough... we'll have this discussion next year then!

Quoting: liamdaweAs for your other bits, well, Vulkan is needed for a big part of Proton remember, so that makes no sense. SDL is also used a lot outside of Linux FYI.

Yes, Vulkan is needed for Proton... and ignored by PC developers* as there is no need for it if you only target Windows.
Yes, SDL is doing fine in the Nintendo Switch for example... and ignored by PC developers* as there is no need for it if you only target Windows.

Proton is doing great in confirming that, as a developer, you just need to target Windows.

* list of vulkan games: https://pcgamingwiki.com/wiki/List_of_Vulkan_games [External Link]
* list of SDL games: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_games_using_SDL [External Link]

You need compare vulkan with DirectX 12. Game devs are relatively conservative and development of a game can be work for years...
https://pcgamingwiki.com/wiki/List_of_DirectX_12_games [External Link]

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I don't think that No tux no bucks can be effective for most titles. Some Indie developers see lower concurency on linux. For them it is effective policy, but for AAA not right now. Right now there is game changer in production. Google Stadia. They need port it, they need support it on google's debian. With stadia titles there is posibility to change their minds with No tux no bucks, but it cant be only some of us, we need majority of linux gamers and it may not be enough. I really hope fore ID, and nonofficiali supported linux build...

My personal position on this: I prefer games with linux support, or at least with vulkan renderer but with exeption of some win games like frostpunk, or shadow warrior 2.

For what i realy hope is, one day linux games without windows build runned on windows inside their WSL as counterpart of our wine/proton.

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Quoting: liamdawe

Quoting: NanobangAlso, Liam, thank you for taking the time and effort to transcribe Gaben's speech. Transcription, especially of less than stellar audio, is very not-at-all fun under the best of circumstances. Your going the extra mile for we readers is very, very appreciated! :)

Thanks for the kind words, turning it up enough to hear it properly was quite painful on the ears with all the banging and background noise. I thought people would appreciate it though :)

I also thank you for the transcript. English isn't my first language, witch must by obvious from my grammar and without transcription i can have problem with understanding.

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Shadow warior 2 has new home in my library. SW1 has linux build, but 2 only with proton...

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Quoting: Guest

Quoting: ArtenYou know, what owner can? Chose which contribution they accept. If they refuse, cotributor can fork, but he can't force intel accept his work.

Of course but if you don't want to accept AMD hardware contributions then you don't write exactly this:

"welcomes all contributors to improve the project"

Quoting: Guest

Quoting: ArtenYou know, what owner can? Chose which contribution they accept. If they refuse, cotributor can fork, but he can't force intel accept his work.

Of course but if you don't want to accept AMD hardware contributions then you don't write exactly this:

"welcomes all contributors to improve the project"

Contrary, i write exactly that. AMD can bring some optimisation from which can benefit Intel HW, but for everythink from which intel HW haven’t profit but AMD does i try find a PR reason to not acept it. But that only if i have strong position, like if my distro is only one officialy suported by Steam.

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Quoting: Guest

Quoting: ArtenI don’t think they need hiding. If they can say “this way is beter for our CPU”, then its ok. Benchmark is actual state. Now clear linux isnt officialy suported by steam, if that change...

The scenario that you describe is actually a reality right now. Clear Linux is already highly tuned for Intel platforms. And it's still the best option for AMD hardware.

Can you mention something specific that will change the current situation?

I said that i can be paranoid. I only think it is not great idea. I haven't any proof, only hunch.

Quoting: Guest

Quoting: ArtenI don’t think they need hiding. If they can say “this way is beter for our CPU”, then its ok. Benchmark is actual state. Now clear linux isnt officialy suported by steam, if that change...

I did some additional research and I found this information:

Clear Linux OS is composed of many different open source software projects and welcomes all contributors to improve the project.

You know, what owner can? Chose which contribution they accept. If they refuse, cotributor can fork, but he can't force intel accept his work.

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Quoting: Guest

Quoting: ArtenI don't like the idea of ​​an intel controlled distro used as a distribution recommended for games. They may try look beter then AMD. Choose optimisation which help them but hurt Ryzen,... Or maybe i'm paranoid.

How would they hide this in an open-source system? And I think that the reality paints a different picture. Clear Linux is the fastest system for AMD hardware: Benchmarks Of OpenMandriva's AMD Zen Optimized Linux Distribution Against Ubuntu, openSUSE, Clear Linux [External Link]

I don’t think they need hiding. If they can say “this way is beter for our CPU”, then its ok. Benchmark is actual state. Now clear linux isnt officialy suported by steam, if that change...

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Quoting: Guest

Quoting: TheSyldat

Quoting: GuestIs it really because of the decision to drop 32bit OS support? Nobody, literally nobody, especially not Valve's target audience, is still using a 32 bit OS unless they just don't know any better. I think it's more because they already have steamOS and ubuntu is falling out of fashion anyways.

Again they are not just dropping the 32 bit flavor , they are freezing the 32 bit multilib in terms of update (essentially deprecating it ) sooo as a result a lot of your games on steam won't work out of the box on newer versions of Ubuntu but more importantly even after trying to get the 32 bit libs it might still not work all that well because they're not updating them anymore either .

Oh damn, I mean I get why canonical would want this, 32-bit should basically only exist for legacy applications, modern applications should not be relying on it, and theoretically on a modern OS you should never need to use 32-bit libs, but there's always some legacy application creeping around somewhere that relies on it, and there's always some stupid developer that didn't bother compiling for 64 bit here and there.

I mean this kinda needs to happen, but maybe it's a bit ahead of it's time, this decision.

Not only legacy application, but also applications with legacy code which is not 64bit compatible - there are old project with huge codebase. Or for some instance for application for which is 32bit better. Here is post from enemy camp developer about their visual studio (2019 is still 32bit aplication, i asume point are still valid, or their codebase is realy incompatible) [External Link]

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Quoting: liamdawe

Quoting: Nevertheless

Quoting: GuestMaybe Shuttleworth still plans on a Canonical Initial Public Offering (IPO) in 2019. It would make Ubuntu more attractive if they don't focus on the 32 bit libs but on profitable projects instead.

I think that it's time for Arch, Manjaro, Debian or Fedora to become the new leading OS for the desktop.

And I also like Clear Linux OS as a replacement for Ubuntu because it is generally the fastest system and because you have collaboration potential with Intel. And Clear Linux also works very fast on AMD hardware.

There will be some initial problems with Nvidia drivers and other issues but I think that Clear Linux OS can be a perfect replacement for Ubuntu in the long term.

It will become clearer when Clear Linux adopts KDE Plasma.. .. Holy f.. it already has!
https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=clear-linux-kde&num=1 [External Link]

Clear Linux becoming more consumer orientated, adopting KDE, Valve hiring for Kwin...hmmm...

I don't like the idea of ​​an intel controlled distro used as a distribution recommended for games. They may try look beter then AMD. Choose optimisation which help them but hurt Ryzen,... Or maybe i'm paranoid.

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