One think for 64bit zealot. I work as programmer in company developing accounting application witch development began on Win 95 with MFC and is one of most used accounting application in my country. We are not able to “just build it for 64bit”, code is not compatible with 64bit, there are 20 years of legacy code from time when 64 bit has been sci-fi on desktop, where in some place it relies on pointer size 4 bytes and similar 32x64bit conflicts. It is not linux application, but i think that there must be linux desktop application with similar problems, or someone can run it under wine and there are countless similar business application witch have same problem. And one more think from windows world, Microsoft have IDE Visual Studio 2019. 32 bit application with some parts running in separated 64bit processes, reason? Legacy code. If linux want to be on desktop, then linux need support applications with legacy code without ability 64bit build.

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Quoting: mphuZ

Quoting: ArtenMacOS as different case. When Apple remove 32bit support, there is no other way.

And? I still do not see the arguments why Valve should continue to support macOS. Not only because of the rejection of 32-bit support, but in general.

Money? 3.26% of their users use MacOS, for linux it is only 0.84%. For them its only minimal investment. There is no mac proton, no investment into OS and driver development, thats all on Apple side. Valve can rebuild into 64 and blacklist 32 bit games on new MacOS and wait for some money from Feral ports and some another game. All hate from not suported 32bit can be targeted on Apple.

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Quoting: mphuZOK. Let's see if Valve will be consistent in their decision:
https://appletoolbox.com/2019/06/macos-catalina-and-your-32-bit-apps [External Link]


MacOS as different case. When Apple remove 32bit support, there is no other way. You want play Duke Nuke 3d? Valve on Mac can say "It Apple thing. We have hands cuffed. But you can be blamed, you know, Apple do this regularly, remember PowerPC and you chosed MacOS" but in Ubuntu case, Valve recomended distro and now what? I like to play old game sometimes. Yes they can build Steam client for 64bit. Now i think valve start distribute 64bit steam, and change officialy suported distro to another. For wine, i don't know what they do. CodeWeavers need their solution support 32 bit windows app, because without that they are done. "Your acounting windows software is 32bit? And you use ubuntu? Great, that we cant do... can you pls pay for nothink?"

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Quoting: DerpFox

Quoting: Ehvis

Quoting: DerpFoxThe full pack should have been at 500€ MAXIMUM to be interesting. And at that price it would still have been really expensive. And a good price would have been 300€.

I agree! And my house should have cost no more than €10000, because that would have been a good price!

No, its just a comparison with the other products in the VR segment that are here or to come. 1000€ is way over priced where most of the other VR sets are sitting between 300€ and 700€. At this point its not even a question of spec, the product just won't sell. Valve have invested so much time and money in that project and all the related games, if no one is buying its just a wasted investment.

At a 700€ price the HTC Vive already have great difficulties to sell. the best seller is currently the Playstation VR priced at 300€ and even at that price people think twice before buying one.

If Valve want to penetrate the VR market they wont make it at 1000€. 500 or 300 might seem low but that is were the others are. I have a couple friends who follow the VR news and they were until today hesitant on what they will buy as their next VR Kit. It was between the Oculus Quest set and the Valve Index. Now they have their answer they will go for the Oculus.

I'm sorry but Valve have already lost, I bet next year this time they will announce they stop production of the Index.

Quoting: DerpFox

Quoting: Ehvis

Quoting: DerpFoxThe full pack should have been at 500€ MAXIMUM to be interesting. And at that price it would still have been really expensive. And a good price would have been 300€.

I agree! And my house should have cost no more than €10000, because that would have been a good price!

No, its just a comparison with the other products in the VR segment that are here or to come. 1000€ is way over priced where most of the other VR sets are sitting between 300€ and 700€. At this point its not even a question of spec, the product just won't sell. Valve have invested so much time and money in that project and all the related games, if no one is buying its just a wasted investment.

At a 700€ price the HTC Vive already have great difficulties to sell. the best seller is currently the Playstation VR priced at 300€ and even at that price people think twice before buying one.

If Valve want to penetrate the VR market they wont make it at 1000€. 500 or 300 might seem low but that is were the others are. I have a couple friends who follow the VR news and they were until today hesitant on what they will buy as their next VR Kit. It was between the Oculus Quest set and the Valve Index. Now they have their answer they will go for the Oculus.

I'm sorry but Valve have already lost, I bet next year this time they will announce they stop production of the Index.

Or they can wait for steam sales. We dont know sales price. This price can be for early adopters.

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Quoting: sub

Quoting: Arten

Quoting: subStore says 1.1 kEuro (full kit).

Too expensive for me.

It's a pity, they can't subsidize the hardware. :/

My threshold for a full kit would be ~600 Euro.

Epyc store certainly sabotaged money income. I do not know if they would subsidize it if there is no epyc store but it would be more likely.

Don't think this has anything to do with Epic's store.

If you can't/don't lock the software to your store,
subsidizing is not reasonable.

As Valve is using (afaik) open APIs and you can use Index without Steam lock-in, subsidizing would be at least dangerous for Valve - if not stupid. Think of subsidizing expensive hardware that some people use but without using your store that should amortize the subsidizing.

Not sure SONY did it with their VR, but in that case subsidizing would make sense.

Quoting: sub

Quoting: Arten

Quoting: subStore says 1.1 kEuro (full kit).

Too expensive for me.

It's a pity, they can't subsidize the hardware. :/

My threshold for a full kit would be ~600 Euro.

Epyc store certainly sabotaged money income. I do not know if they would subsidize it if there is no epyc store but it would be more likely.

Don't think this has anything to do with Epic's store.

If you can't/don't lock the software to your store,
subsidizing is not reasonable.

As Valve is using (afaik) open APIs and you can use Index without Steam lock-in, subsidizing would be at least dangerous for Valve - if not stupid. Think of subsidizing expensive hardware that some people use but without using your store that should amortize the subsidizing.

Not sure SONY did it with their VR, but in that case subsidizing would make sense.

I dont think so. You dont need lock in if they controll majority of market. Withou Epic store, who can use it? gog? Before Epic, Steam have enaught strong position for that. Its not like PS used as part of supercomputer when sony subsidied it, and there can by limitation like subsidied only for steam acounts which buyed games for more then xx€ or somethink.

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Quoting: subStore says 1.1 kEuro (full kit).

Too expensive for me.

It's a pity, they can't subsidize the hardware. :/

My threshold for a full kit would be ~600 Euro.

Epyc store certainly sabotaged money income. I do not know if they would subsidize it if there is no epyc store but it would be more likely.

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Quoting: KimyriellePeople that defend that disgusting corporate practice of having no problem with moving your jobs to cheaper regions, but charging you prices as if the thing had been made in a high-wage country fail to understand that for the practice of trade the EU -is- one nation already. Goods, money, ideas and people can move absolutely freely inside the EU and did so for decades, so banning regional price discrimination is just a logical step. Nothing more, nothing less. Our our side of the pond, we don't allow corporations to block someone living in Texas from shopping in North Dakota either. Same thing.

Capitalism is most efficient method of controlling resources. There is nothing disgusting in regional prices. Sorry but my country has been in comunist hell before and EU going right to that direction and this is one of many example of that. If there is no difference between prices in high-wage country and low-wage country, how you balance wealth of citizens? If citizens of low-wage country must pay high-wage country prices, how they can make savings? How without savings they can fund businesses? How they can get richer? Or you like to create master race from high-wage country citizens and from low-wage country citizen slave race?

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Game dev is trying only maximize their income, and that is good for them and gamer community, they have more money and they are moro motivated for making games. When poorer country citizen can’t afford buy it, they lower prices for them. Problem is, if they can’t do that. they have 3 options: higher price everywhere, compromise price everywhere, or lower price everywhere. Option 3 is worst option from game dev point of view, and never happens.

EU, like always is trying impoverish citizens of poorer countries for benefits of richest. For year 2016, median household income has been for czech republic 7,838 euro and for germany 21,263 euro (in Purchasing power standard czech republic 12,478  and germany 21,139). When capitalism introduce partial solution for this inequality, there is another communist regulation from EU protecting this inequality and making us second class EU citizens.

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Everspace, maybe DeusEx:MD. With Steam Play Gray Goo, I love this game.

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