Quoting: rea987You do realize this is a site dedicated to Gaming on Linux? Of course a game losing support for a Linux make itself worse for Linux players.

No, it doesn't.
The game itself isn't better or worse. It's mechanics didn't change, nothing about it that has any influence on the quality of game changed, nobody who still plays the game lost any game quality over that change.

You can't play it. That makes your situation worse, so Epic made your situation worse, indeed, but not the game itself.
One shouldn't confuse one's own situation in relation to the game with the quality of a game itself.

Quoting: Segata SanshiroMore like authoritarian capitalism or "capitalism with Chinese characteristics." I honestly hope no one tries to emulate that, it sounds like an incredibly unpleasant world to live in.

Don't know about that. In contrast to the slowly collapsing economies we have in the west, their shit works and seems vastly more stable. And that is IMO mostly due to the advantages of authoritarian systems.
Not saying all should copy it, but it should be looked at thoroughly and without blinding idealism to see what improvements, if any, can be taken from it and applied to ours.

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Quoting: Arten

Quoting: TheSHEEEP

Quoting: ArtenSo, you propouse use regulation (forcing valve enable regional pricing) for deal with consequences of another regulation?

You are shifting the blame here.
The consequences of not allowing region blocking should not be that there is only one EU region. Imagine if that was the case for other goods - EU would have imploded the moment that happened.
That this was the result is entirely Valve's fault - they could have, and easily so, only removed the region locking without also removing different EU regions (remember, they had those, even if only three).
They did not do that out of good old corporate greed - capitalistic entities will always strive to maximize profit, no matter the negative consequences. Which a state (or in this case, the EU) exists to regulate in order to benefit its citizens. It's called social capitalism and is working fairly well in most European countries.
It requires regulations, believe it or not.

Now, what can the EU do here?
Abolish its own principles because one fringe entity (in the grand scheme of things, when talking about the entire EU, Valve doesn't amount to anything) chose to be greedy about implementing laws?
I'd hope not - if they did that, it would show that just about anyone could strongarm the EU into backpedaling.
Force Valve to not f*ck over its customers? That would be optimal but as I said, I have no clue if there is legal ground to enforce regional pricing.
Or just do nothing and accept being blamed for another's fault? Unfortunately the most likely scenario here, there are bigger tasks to tackle right now for the EU than Valve.

Quoting: ArtenAnother regulation only do situaction worst in another place!

Not the one that I proposed, at least not for customers.
As I wrote before, regional pricing has not lead to price increases so far - just look at Russian games that aren't region locked, there is no price increase on the scale some seem to be afraid of.
Assuming that this would somehow be different for the EU is just fear mongering without a base in reality.

It would lead to Valve and publishers earning less money per purchase in lower income regions - while also leading to a lot more purchases in these regions. I'm not even sure it would lead to a net loss. I could very well imagine lots of people from lower income regions purchasing a lot more after such a change.

Besides, seriously, what is the worst that could happen?
We already ARE in the worst case for most Steam customers in the EU! Everyone's paying the highest price. Having regional prices again would mean an improvement for pretty much everyone.
Even in the (highly unlikely) case that those regional prices would be rising - they'd still be lower for most than they are now.

I'm not shifting blame. I identified true criminal in this case and it is EU. Whole EU is just regulatory hell which make hell from living in here. Idea of duty free trade is good, but EU evolved into mutch closer to totalitarian organisation. Ok, not china level yet, but wait couple years.
EU is evil organisation to begin with.
Which negative consequences have maximizing profit in this case? That rich germans with houshold income mote then 2* greater then for example czech houshold income can't buy games on third party regional sites and use it? Without this barier, germans can maximize their profit at the expense of citizens of poorer nations. So local third party stores need choose higher prices.

In this case, Valve is purely victim of EU oppression and regulatory hell.
So, some games are using regional lock in russia. Is logical to assume one who change price are the one which move price.

I was going to actually reply in detail and dismantle every single non-argument in that load of poorly veiled anti-EU propaganda.
But I think that would be waste of time and instead I'm going to abbreviate it all with:

Careful, your mouth is foaming.

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Quoting: rea987Rocket League lost Linux support. Period.

The question was about games that got worse because of Tencent.
Do you really believe Epic would have done anything different if they had acquired Psyonix without Tencent?

Anyway, I think this was more about games that became worse on a design level, with a sudden influx of MTX, etc.
A game losing support for a platform doesn't make the game itself any worse. Just like having Linux support on its own doesn't make any game any better.

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I was going to say " 'China Bad!' screechers in 3... 2... 1..." but it appears I am too late.
Oh, well.

Quoting: NezchanWell, not getting into the Chinese government issue, but Tencent is very much the masters of predatory monetization.

I'm not worried about the Chinese government at all, but that part is indeed something I'd see as very worrying - and that would be the same if EA had acquired them.
We'll see just how quickly Klei turns from industry darling to something else entirely now.
Just shows that anyone can be bought for the right price.

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Quoting: x_wingBased on what it's written here Steam may not be able to restrict the access to the Russian store nor reject a credit card that is located in the EU.

But what's written there applies only to the EU, except if I missed or misinterpreted something.
I don't think anything in there applies to outside of the EU (like Russia).

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Quoting: Guest

Quoting: TheSHEEEPjust look at Russian games that aren't region locked, there is no price increase on the scale some seem to be afraid of.

Real question: are those Russian keys region locked ? Can i buy a game at a lower price in a Russian store and activate it in the EU here ?

Depends on the game. I'm not certain how many are region locked. Probably most - except for indies.
But definitely not all - and those that aren't did not lead to their prices exploding for Russians.
Here's a guide on how to check if a game is region locked (it is cumbersome):
https://www.hlplanet.com/how-to-check-game-region-lock/ [External Link]

Bottom line is that it is up to publishers if they want to region lock or not.
Undoubtedly, most do want that as they expect increased profit from that.
But especially indie games are often not region locked (and you won't find region specific "CD Key" entries for them on steamdb).

That said, it isn't too easy to pull off.
You require a VPN to begin with - which has to function well enough for Steam not to detect that you are using it and just show you your "real" prices anyway.
I suspect the entire purchase pipeline in Steam is full with checks to detect VPNs - and afaik using a VPN to purchase is against Steam's TOS, so very much use at your own risk.
In addition to that, I'm fairly sure you also need a "local" payment method, e.g. local Russian credit card or something like that. If you wanna pay via PayPal and your PayPal still says you are not in Russia, well... I wouldn't do it.

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Quoting: ArtenSo, you propouse use regulation (forcing valve enable regional pricing) for deal with consequences of another regulation?

You are shifting the blame here.
The consequences of not allowing region blocking should not be that there is only one EU region. Imagine if that was the case for other goods - EU would have imploded the moment that happened.
That this was the result is entirely Valve's fault - they could have, and easily so, only removed the region locking without also removing different EU regions (remember, they had those, even if only three).
They did not do that out of good old corporate greed - capitalistic entities will always strive to maximize profit, no matter the negative consequences. Which a state (or in this case, the EU) exists to regulate in order to benefit its citizens. It's called social capitalism and is working fairly well in most European countries.
It requires regulations, believe it or not.

Now, what can the EU do here?
Abolish its own principles because one fringe entity (in the grand scheme of things, when talking about the entire EU, Valve doesn't amount to anything) chose to be greedy about implementing laws?
I'd hope not - if they did that, it would show that just about anyone could strongarm the EU into backpedaling.
Force Valve to not f*ck over its customers? That would be optimal but as I said, I have no clue if there is legal ground to enforce regional pricing.
Or just do nothing and accept being blamed for another's fault? Unfortunately the most likely scenario here, there are bigger tasks to tackle right now for the EU than Valve.

Quoting: ArtenAnother regulation only do situaction worst in another place!

Not the one that I proposed, at least not for customers.
As I wrote before, regional pricing has not lead to price increases so far - just look at Russian games that aren't region locked, there is no price increase on the scale some seem to be afraid of.
Assuming that this would somehow be different for the EU is just fear mongering without a base in reality.

It would lead to Valve and publishers earning less money per purchase in lower income regions - while also leading to a lot more purchases in these regions. I'm not even sure it would lead to a net loss. I could very well imagine lots of people from lower income regions purchasing a lot more after such a change.

Besides, seriously, what is the worst that could happen?
We already ARE in the worst case for most Steam customers in the EU! Everyone's paying the highest price. Having regional prices again would mean an improvement for pretty much everyone.
Even in the (highly unlikely) case that those regional prices would be rising - they'd still be lower for most than they are now.

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Quoting: WindousicoConsequently, regional pricing was terminated with the elimination of region locks on Steam (something I regretted greatly).

Indeed, it was.
Which is absolutely a mistake - I'm not sure what really went wrong there.
It was definitely not the EU demanding regional pricing to be stopped within the EU.

My guess is that Valve itself realized that regional pricing within the EU would lose it some income without region locking and therefore decided to just have one Euro region at the highest price and be done with it.
Also enabling the EU to become the scapegoat again. You kinda feel bad for EU politicians - meaning well, often doing good, but almost always failing to foresee consequences of their actions.

What the EU should actually do now is force Valve to enable regional pricing within the EU again. But I doubt there is legal grounds for that. And apparently the prices even for the lower income region are still "low" enough to make enough sales.

In the end, just another example of Valve's greed - right in line with the ridiculous 30% cut.
And no, I'm not a hater, I just see the good and the bad an entity like Valve is doing.

Quoting: WindousicoThere is no "existing" problem. There is a "verdict" 6 years later (more or less).

Yes, thanks.
I reread the article and now I get it, too. This is the resolution of the problem from back then.

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Quoting: x_wingthere is a chance that a third party can exploit this backdoor and create a business around it that will definitely simplify the steps that a user has to follow in order to get their games for cheaper.

That is true, but not a new problem at all.
So far Steam has failed to tackle the problem of key resellers.
Still, even with all the key reselling, it seems to only be a smaller problem for developers and Steam as most people simply continue to purchase via Steam (or legitimate stores like Humble or gamersgate) for the most part as it is the most convenient.

Quoting: x_wingIMO it's always better to keep things as simple as possible. So, maybe the rule should have been that if you get a key that you cannot activate in your country, the seller is obligated to refund your money

That would still be illegal within the EU as it is effectively region locking.
The best solution would be as I wrote above, allow different pricing regions per country instead of per currency.

The fear that this would lead to price explosions for the lower income markets simply has not come true for any kind of digital purchase that I am aware of (and I'm aware of a few).
E.g. non-region locked games from Russia, despite key resellers, have not caused a price explosion for Russian gamers. Nor am I aware of such price increases before there even was region locking - Valve introduced that because it was missing out on a bit of income and possibly due to national law demands.

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Quoting: WindousicoRegional pricing was terminated with the elimination of region locks. It's a fact in Steam. Now we have the same prices in Poland, Spain and Germany (since 2015-2016).

This is clearly not true for Poland, as anyone can check.

However, it seems true that Steam only allows setting prices per currency, not per region. At least I couldn't find price differences within EU countries in my VPN search across different Steam fronts.
Basically, all Euro countries pay the same price - this does, indeed prevent regional pricing within Euro countries.
Which is really ridiculous as the disposable income within Euro countries is vastly different.

It seems like Valve basically took the EU's complaint about illegal regional locking and used that as a reason to not even have different regions within a single currency - they used to have that at least somewhat with their EU tiers, but they abandoned even that minimal effort.

As an annoying side effect, as all can witness in this thread, the wrong idea got into people's heads that the EU would want to ban regional price differences - even saw that in some articles.

Sucks for residents of affected countries.
Either way, that's not the EU's fault (as the EU only prohibits regional locking, not pricing), and in this case it's not even the publishers' fault - this is on Valve not caring about lower GDP regions within the EU.
All they'd need to do is to allow different regional pricing within countries with the same currency while also not allowing regional locking.

What I don't understand is what all the fuss is about, then. If Valve removed the region locking in 2015 already and there are no regional price differences within Euro countries - what's the actual problem now?
The remaining few EU countries that don't have Euro being region locked?

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