Quoting: ArtenMS probably knew about Mantle before it has been made public and by then, they could have work on DX12.

AMD didn't exactly keep it a secret. They wanted to make it a base for the common API from the early on. Everyone collaborated on it. MS and Apple pushed their NIHs instead knowing very well that it will slow down progress.

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Quoting: slaapliedjeHow stable is replacing KDE from an outside repo working out?

I've been using his repos for KDE for a while on Debian testing and it works very well. He makes sure it's compatible with Debian repos, so newer version in main repo will supersede his if that ever happens.

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Quoting: HoriAlso, you have to understand that companies as big as MS plan things many years in advance. DX12 was probably planned and approved as a long term strategy for a long time before that happened.

It was a reactionary effort driven by Mantle proposal from AMD. MS literally used Mantle itself for DX12 (I linked the evidence above). So they could simply join Vulkan collaboration instead, but their lock-in mentality still prevailed there.

It worked out better for OpenXR - MS for a change did participate in it.

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Quoting: IzaicToo bad it's already running an ancient version of KDE Plasma.

I'm using Debian testing with these repos and have Plasma 5.22.4 now:

deb https://download.opensuse.org/repositories/home:/npreining:/debian-kde:/other-deps/Debian_Testing/ ./
deb https://download.opensuse.org/repositories/home:/npreining:/debian-kde:/frameworks/Debian_Testing/ ./
deb https://download.opensuse.org/repositories/home:/npreining:/debian-kde:/plasma522/Debian_Testing/ ./
deb https://download.opensuse.org/repositories/home:/npreining:/debian-kde:/apps2104/Debian_Testing/ ./
deb https://download.opensuse.org/repositories/home:/npreining:/debian-kde:/other/Debian_Testing/ ./

Norbert is packaging Plasma for Debian and provides newest version from this OBS repos. You can follow his updates here [External Link].

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Quoting: CatKillerThat would be a criticism of Steve Ballmer and Satya Nadella, not the person in charge of Xbox.

I doubt Nadela makes such decisions for them (Ballmer was already gone at that point). It pretty much fits the authority of Xbox head. But who knows.

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Quoting: CatKiller

Quoting: ShmerlThey didn't have anything even planned, let alone released.

DX12 came out in early 2014 (my mistake, it came with Windows 10 in 2015; it was announced in 2014). Vulkan wasn't released till early 2016.

Those APIs weren't released instantly and out of nowhere. Vulkan took some time to be designed by a whole range or participants. But the effort started obviously before version 1.0 came out. The work on it was happening in parallel with MS working on DX12 and they both used Mantle as a source.

The point of my criticism is MS refusing to join the collaborative effort when they very well knew it was happening, and pushing lock-in instead.

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Quoting: CatKiller

Quoting: ShmerlThey didn't have anything even planned, let alone released.

DX12 came out in early 2014. Vulkan wasn't released till early 2016.

Mantle came before and idea of collaborating on it was on the table. MS could join the effort or not. Those who joined used Mantle to make Vulkan. Those who didn't, used Mantle to make DX12. MS were very well aware about what's going on.

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Quoting: CatKillerSo you've worked for Microsoft for, what, 25 years? Microsoft have a product already released that's they think is pretty good, and you're put in charge of the department whose primary function is to push that product. And you decide, before a competing product is even released, to say, "you know what? Our product is bullshit. Scrap the whole thing."

They didn't have anything even planned, let alone released. Mantle came out in 2013. AMD proposed to make it a common API and various industry players had discussions about it, with plans obviously for someone like Khronos to be the steward of that effort which indeed resulted in Vulkan by 2015. MS were there and could participate. Instead, they took the same Mantle and made DX12 from it.

See also this: https://twitter.com/renderpipeline/status/581086347450007553 [External Link]

It totally seems reasonable to me to back the collaborative effort instead of lock-in pushing. But MS being MS decided to be their old self and Phil Spencer was there for that decision.

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Yeah, fixed the typo. Though Metal is in the same boat. Apple pushed lock-in when Mantle was presented and used its ideas too.

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Quoting: CatKillerNot really. DX12 was a thing before he got put in charge of Xbox, and Xbox being a thing to push DirectX ("DirectX box") was a thing long before he was in charge.

He became the head Xbox / gaming division in MS in 2014. That's before Vulkan was even announced and during the important period when Mantle was presented by AMD to the industry as a prototype design of a common GPU API. So he totally was in charge of making the decision whether to collaborate or to push lock-in. And we know what MS did.

Even if you say someone else (shortly) before him decided to make DX12 from Mantle, he totally could scrap that and make MS collaborate with Khronos on Vulkan which was still in development phase. He didn't.

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