Didn't you just claim to be done with the thread?

Yep, I did. And going to respond to this too.

And that's just the bits that stand out as individual utterances. In context, much of the rest of what you said is very dismissive and snide, as well.

Yes, that happens in a discussion where two people don't agree.

I suppose you could say that was less "hostile" and more "contemptuous", but I certainly wouldn't describe it as "friendly" or "respectful" or even "neutral".

That could be because we're not neutral, it's a discussion.

Incidentally, you're right that Scaine isn't using the word "strawman" correctly. But, neither are you.

Which is a pretty big part of his entire argument but hey, trivialize whatever you wish.

Regarding your comment above which I've ignored until now:

While I don't know the truth about Discord, I can read English. You are incorrectly parsing what you're replying to and this is leading you to be inaccurately insulting.

Translation you have no idea what we're talking about but feel the need to claim I'm insulting someone? What on earth guy.

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Quoting: scaineWell, I got my strawman mixed up with my ad-hominims, oops. Humble apologies for my "drivel". But at least we're both done with this thread.

..Claims to be done with thread, takes another jab.

Quoting: scaineJust to recap though, people who use Discord have been called:
* Boomers (whatever that means?)
* Apathetic (the implication is laziness)
* Addicts (to Web 3.0, I think?)
* Clueless

I'm sure they have been called a lot worse. What does that have to do with anything in this thread.

Quoting: scaineAnd still no evidence on Discord abusing their privacy policy.

Which has literally nothing to do with anything I said nor this thread.

Quoting: scaineDevnull is convinced that if "it's on the screen", that means "it's being sent to Discord". Fair enough. I disagree. Perhaps I'll change my mind when the Privacy report comes in.

Which will confirm what? You already said you have it enabled or are you going to back peddle on that too LOL.

Quoting: scaine@Ehvis, no idea where Discord is based, no, but they offer the freedom of data option right in the settings of their app, and refer to it in their privacy policy.

.. And you will find out the data they collect is not the same as their partners, nor countless bots that mine discord.

You started this as though you had some position of authority in it or at least knew what you were talking about. This is fuckin epic level troll. +1

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Quoting: scaineYou're being weirdly hostile about this. But to address your arguments in turn:

Hostile? Erm, OK? Guess if you wish to think that sure.

Quoting: scaine1. How do you know the data is collected even after I turn the option off? What are you seeing that you base this comment on?

You mean besides the fact that it's literally on the same screen as that toggle? You have to be kidding me.

Quoting: scaine2. It's not baffling, unless you don't understand how they work, maybe. Flatpacks and Snaps run their payload in a sandbox.

Which doesn't address Discord doing it in the first place.

Quoting: scaineAs an aside, it's not a strawman - I wasn't attacking you (the definition of a strawman argument),

That isn't the definition of a strawman argument but OK?? (seriously where do you get this drivel from).

Quoting: scaineI was referencing that every single argument against Discord appears to be because it's proprietary. To elaborate, I think that if you put aside the issues you have with the company behind it, you could trust Discord if it was open source, because then you'd have hard evidence that turning off the process logger has no effect. Correct me if I'm wrong. But this way, you could see the source.

I don't know where to even begin with that. At no point did I say anything about the company itself nor it being proprietary. You keep claiming things YOU have found (or haven't), one of those sources is reddit. Not sure what you expected? You literally can view the dev console and see some of it.

Quoting: scaineYou could code out unwanted behaviours and compile it yourself to ensure integrity. Hence, all the issues people have with Discord is that they don't trust Discord to do what they ask it to do (e.g. don't record my game activity).

I could yes, that was never in dispute. Not sure what your point is?

Quoting: scaine3. My steam profile is public. Hence, my game activity, recorded by discord, has no value to discord. At least in the context of "should I run discord, since it collects my game data"? Is your public address valuable?
Not if it's freely available in a phone book it's not. It's only valuable when it's collated against other data sets.

What on Earth are you talking about? You do realize selling phonebook data is a massive business, right? Oh hell I give up on this thread.

Quoting: scaineI don't understand the anger I'm getting from your comments. Apologies if I've misread your tone.

No one is angry guy.. You're fairly clueless when it comes to this, I forgot.

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Quoting: scaineSorry, I'm not really following. Why can't I opt-out? The option is right there under "Game Activity".

The option you're referring to only affects updating your status. As of last week the data is still collected.

Quoting: scaineOr if we're back on the proprietary software hate, and it's an issue of trust (or you have actual proof that the option doesn't change anything) there's always the option of running it in a Flatpak or Snap, I suppose.

Your strawman isn't going to work. Proprietary has nothing to do with what I said. Fact that you'd suggest Flatpak or Snap as options is baffling.

Quoting: scaineBut if the option really does nothing, wouldn't that be weird?

Yes, that's my point.

Quoting: scaineAfter all, it's not as if my game activity is
a) worth anything and
b) not already public on Steam

The importance you place on your privacy, or lacktherof, is not my concern. The data -is- valuable and no, it isn't public on Steam. Profile is set to private.

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Guessing it has at least in part to do with this [External Link].

Thankfully the days of seeing streamers spending hours opening CS:GO crates like a crackhead at a slot machine, are long over. Allowing kids to gamble is illegal for a reason and _supposed_ to be banned on Twitch. Doing any kind of "fair" raffle or giveaway is almost impossible online.

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Quoting: liamdaweI didn't miss your point, I am arguing against it.

Healthy discussion on the Intnernet? *GASP* :) Glad we're on the same page.

Quoting: liamdaweWhat has happened is not normal, at all.
Yes it is normal for wishlists to get removed, i've mentioned this numerous times now.

It's a statisticallly significant event yes but you're I think only seeing the short term negative side of it.

Quoting: liamdaweIf you can't see the difference between this and normal activity with all the evidence then I have nothing else to say on that really.

I do see the difference I just take a more pragmatic inference.

Quoting: liamdaweDevelopers only see numbers, they don't know exactly who has wishlisted it. Wishlists also affect store visibility and are directly tied to how a game does when it launches.

Think that has more to do with user sorting preferences no? Two filters I use are what others are playing and what's new. Sales are nice but there are other factors too.

Quoting: liamdaweAs for not wanting developers to see it, I guess you entirely missed this then.

I have, don't really see the relationship though. I've had Windows and Linux both checked for a whille because well, Proton is awsome. If I understand that post it would only be singled out if -one- category was selected.

You understand there is a difference between a wishlist and something like prepurchase right? :) To me a wishlish is more like an upvote, yes it shows interest but it doesn't really _mean_ much. One can be botted, the other not so much. The flipside of people clearing out their lists are people looking at the items. It would be an interesting metric to see if titles also got more hits, but it's all pretty fluid in terms of SALES.

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Quoting: TheRiddickWaiting for the day when Vive and Rift companies suddenly decide to go for large FOV headsets (110fov is not large, 180 is). I really don't like the idea of wearing a ski-mask, surprised so many people are content with that, it would drive me mad!

TBH once you learn how to _properly_ adjust the vive, you don't really notice. GoogleEarth for example is neglected by Google (wonder if they even remember it exists), yet still very immersive.

If only someone could bribe or otherwise convince a VRChat dev to fix their build again :(

I take that back, either they are quick to fix it (heh), or magic because it FSCKING WORKS. Kick ass. Servers are still in some asian conuntry..hope it doesn't break again.

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Gave this a shot. Addictive to say the least, it's like quake with ships. The controls are a bit to get used to (what satanic person made inverted mouse a default!). Thankfully it can be turned off but doesn't appear the auto rolling adjustment can. You can adjust it with R and W but not disable.

Having never played Descent, the close quaters can be a bit to get used to, too. Almost need a large sandbox-ish kind of map for newbs to practice in. Overall pretty fun though once you get used to it. Haven't tried it in VR yet.

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Quoting: tuubi

Quoting: devnullAs Gaming in a vm becomes more common (PCI passthrough rocks), it's not clear what happens to those stats. I have two physical machines with 2 GPUs each, does that count for example as one install? Two? Four? If one switches between OS's, does that change anything? How are even basic hardware metrics counted, is a vCPU a core or thread? Etc.

Naturally only the hardware available to the currently running OS is counted in the survey.

Never said it wouldn't. Question was does it count as one or more with steam running concurrently.

Quoting: tuubiIf you happen to be running a Windows VM with a dedicated Nvidia GPU when the survey pops up, that's what Valve will see you gaming on. If you're lucky enough to get the survey on multiple VMs/hosts in the same month, they'll be counted as separate systems and IMHO for good reason. It's just a technicality that (most of) the hardware is shared. I don't know if it's still true, but you used to be able to review the data before sending it so you could make certain.

That is kind of the point of contention though. I could for example, run without a gpu at all. If the hardware survey popped up then, it would skew the results.

Quoting: tuubiBTW, why do you think gaming in VMs will ever become common? It's a nifty trick and worth more nerd cred than dual booting, but not as much as not dual booting ;). In any case, it's not something a game developer would specifically target so they wouldn't care.

It's more common then you think. There's a reason NVIDIA actively tries to prevent such installs.

Quoting: tuubiOh, and of course a vCPU acts like a CPU core to the VM client. The whole point of a VM is that apps running on it see a fairly normal hardware setup and don't need to know the difference.

It does matter. The vCPU may not have various features enabled (SSE for example). That again would skew the results.

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I know many people feel strongly about these issues for various reasons, but I still don't see why you pretend this is somehow relevant to the topic.

Because it wasn't just putting a beard on a lady.

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