Quoting: elmapul3-for now they only have that.

4- are games cheaper, because epic just takes 12%? ubisoft games cost the same on uplay and steam.
yes, ubisoft had an bad time with self publishing, still they are doing it anyway, most triple A companies are doing, epic may have a chance to compete because many companies will give up leaving steam if steam change their cut, the economics of scale will not compensate the cost of self hosting

correct me if im wrong, but did epic have so many good games in the past?
on PC they had UT of course, bulletstorm, and........ i think thats pretty much it
they made a lucky punch with a F2P comic pubg rip off. i dont think they have another hyped game like that in the next few years

i dont think anybody leaves steam. epic takes less money, but who say, that epic has the customers? who says that everybody moves to epic, if the games cost the same? would you go to epic just because ubisoft, etc can make more money
so if the games on epic arent significantly cheaper, than on steam, why would anybody install another client? and epic only would also be a high risk for developers

epic doesnt have their own exclusive games, they wont get 3rd party exclusive games and they wont be cheaper than steam
not really a good selling point to install another client

AND if everything's falling apart.... steam still can lower the cut down to 20 or 15%

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Quoting: Nevertheless

Quoting: mylka

Quoting: Guest

Quoting: mylka

Quoting: GuestThat explains the recent Valve royalty cut...

Valve is very greedy and lazy. And sadly they don't show signs of improving. They will only really try to change their ways when it is too late, as is always the case...

you say that after all they did for linux (client, steamOS, wine/proton, dxvk, mesa) for free

Well, they're doing it because it benefits them. Yes, it's of benefit to the general GNU/Linux community too, but I wouldn't quite say "free" (Valve would expect something to come of it, or they wouldn't invest). Subtle difference, but important: and no flame wars, this is a good showcase of how a company can invest in open source software for their own benefit, without trampling on user rights.

Anyway, Valve have done plenty of shady things as well. Let's not forget the paid mod fiasco. They've steadily reduced their own effort in managing their own marketplace (trying to make it community run basically means they don't have to do anything except gather the cash). That point is going to stir a few emotions I'm sure, but it's good business sense really: get others to do the work for you. I wouldn't put it quite to the extreme of greedy and lazy, but neither are Valve going to put in more effort than they have to.

Oh, and Valve do try improve because they know that if they don't, the success with Steam that they've had won't last. They've been working to give themselves a direction, a way out of stagnation. I think there's even a video of Newell saying that somewhere.

Please please please people don't read this as attacking (quite often people do). I'm not. Valve aren't golden heroes, but neither are they murky villains. They're just doing good business, and obviously GNU/Linux is, or Valve believes has the potential for, good (desktop) business.

i dont think they make the big bucks with linux
of course they wont lose money with their linux support, but if linux would be so profitable, than gog, ea, uplay, and epic already had linux support for their clients and/or their top sellers like witcher 3, battlefield, call of duty, assassins creed, fortnite, etc

so dont underestimate the effort, because the other big players just dont care about linux

Valve needs Linux, because it's bound to be open. No one can own Linux and shut it down like Windows walled gardens. So Valve invested in openness! Maybe Epic sees that now too...

i get it, but whats the point of openness, if no one uses linux? as i said. if MS makes games unplayable tomorrow, what would pc gamers do? switch to linux, mac, or buy a console?
i cant tell.

Quoting: elmapuli think an stronger valve will be better for us in the short time, then in the long time we will need competition for then.

they cant compete with microsoft in the OS right now, they need to be stronger to do that, but i dont see they geting any stronger

it is not that easy.
1) they have to make a linux client
2) they need proton, or else they wont get the linux gamers.
3) they just have 1 game as a selling point. fortnite. i dont play fortnite
4) are games cheaper, because epic just takes 12%? ubisoft games cost the same on uplay and steam. if it is not MUCH cheaper and they dont have more exclusive titles, why would i leave steam?

we are far away from competition

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Quoting: Guest

Quoting: mylkai dont think they make the big bucks with linux
of course they wont lose money with their linux support, but if linux would be so profitable, than gog, ea, uplay, and epic already had linux support for their clients and/or their top sellers like witcher 3, battlefield, call of duty, assassins creed, fortnite, etc

so dont underestimate the effort, because the other big players just dont care about linux

(previous quotes snipped to keep text smaller)
So I was trying to be particular: it's not always about direct sales income. Valve started on GNU/Linux because Microsoft was forcing their hand - they used to it to more or less show that they're not reliant on Microsoft. Valve have also slowly been building up an infrastructure that allows them to move away entirely and run on their own (with a bit of extra funds if they need it immediately). They can play a long game, and "Proton" is pretty clear about their intentions: run the games, but don't rely on Windows.

This is, as I say, just good business. No, not big bucks (right now) with GNU/Linux, but it is a safeguard. That alone has probably stopped Microsoft pulling a few shenanigans of their own, and actually ended up ensuring that Valve haven't been screwed over.

And yeah, absolutely it's a big effort overall, but more importantly there's been some fairly practical investments: drivers, Vulkan, developer days, etc. Ok, perhaps Steam Machines wasn't a wise investment, but not everything can be (I'm sure they learned a lot, and I'm also sure they could afford the mistake).

I guess I have a different approach to many others. I don't see them as champions, I see them as good business people who don't like being under Microsoft's thumb. It also changes certain expectations: a champion I would expect to open source their game management client (aka Steam), but good business people I wouldn't.
....but, I will say they're working with the GNU/Linux community, and they're reaping rewards from it, so we should all point to Valve as an example of how a company should behave.

but isnt MS thumb also a problem for origin, uplay, gog, etc?
lets say MS cuts everybody out tomorrow. origin, uplay, steam, gog, etc
do you think PC gamers would switch to linux, or are they all buying a console?

Quoting: titiFor me its just another store without linux support. This means less games on steam and less linux games for us. And all this nice proton stuff is useless if games are published on other stores.

why would developers make it epic exclusive? you can buy ubisoft titles on steam and uplay. you can buy witcher on gog and steam and play it with proton
even if vavle does everything wrong in the future, it will take some years to "destroy" steam
and proton is still open source. maybe gog builds a wrapper thing with it for their games. (now that im thinking about. maybe some piracy sites already work on that, lol)
i wouldnt fear about that now

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Quoting: Guest

Quoting: mylka

Quoting: GuestThat explains the recent Valve royalty cut...

Valve is very greedy and lazy. And sadly they don't show signs of improving. They will only really try to change their ways when it is too late, as is always the case...

you say that after all they did for linux (client, steamOS, wine/proton, dxvk, mesa) for free

Well, they're doing it because it benefits them. Yes, it's of benefit to the general GNU/Linux community too, but I wouldn't quite say "free" (Valve would expect something to come of it, or they wouldn't invest). Subtle difference, but important: and no flame wars, this is a good showcase of how a company can invest in open source software for their own benefit, without trampling on user rights.

Anyway, Valve have done plenty of shady things as well. Let's not forget the paid mod fiasco. They've steadily reduced their own effort in managing their own marketplace (trying to make it community run basically means they don't have to do anything except gather the cash). That point is going to stir a few emotions I'm sure, but it's good business sense really: get others to do the work for you. I wouldn't put it quite to the extreme of greedy and lazy, but neither are Valve going to put in more effort than they have to.

Oh, and Valve do try improve because they know that if they don't, the success with Steam that they've had won't last. They've been working to give themselves a direction, a way out of stagnation. I think there's even a video of Newell saying that somewhere.

Please please please people don't read this as attacking (quite often people do). I'm not. Valve aren't golden heroes, but neither are they murky villains. They're just doing good business, and obviously GNU/Linux is, or Valve believes has the potential for, good (desktop) business.

i dont think they make the big bucks with linux
of course they wont lose money with their linux support, but if linux would be so profitable, than gog, ea, uplay, and epic already had linux support for their clients and/or their top sellers like witcher 3, battlefield, call of duty, assassins creed, fortnite, etc

so dont underestimate the effort, because the other big players just dont care about linux

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Quoting: GuestThat explains the recent Valve royalty cut...

Valve is very greedy and lazy. And sadly they don't show signs of improving. They will only really try to change their ways when it is too late, as is always the case...

you say that after all they did for linux (client, steamOS, wine/proton, dxvk, mesa) for free

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Quoting: svartalf

Quoting: loggfreakdoes this mean AMD can implement GPU physx?

Yes. Someone could also extend OpenCL, etc. versions of it and make it even MORE generic.

doesnt nvidia has a processor thingy in the gpu, which is only for physx? so it isnt just software, but hardware?

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Quoting: liamdawe

Quoting: Termy

Quoting: MayeulCWhat would be interesting for them is to take a (slightly) lesser cut if the game is cross-platform. Everyone would be happy about this, I think, especially bean counters :)

now that is one of the best ideas i've heard in a while to boost Linux-acceptance among the devs...too bad valve is not looking into this comments xD

I know for a fact a few people at Valve do read stuff here now and then :)

i am pretty sure they already thought about that. it would help steamOS, but they also would lose money

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Quoting: skinnyraf

Quoting: mylkasaddly only arkham origins works OOTB. knight ist totally borked. for the linux community it would make more sense to port batman, than hitman 2, becuase hitman 2 works OOTB
but i think they make more money with hitman 2. and it should be easy to port, because it is nearly the same game as hitman 1
Hitman: Absolution would be nice. its also totally borked

True, but the key thing is money: Proton raises the bar. For games like Hitman 2 it's either 0 day release (or shortly afterwards) or the risk of missing the boat, if many Linux gamers bought the game thanks to good enough Proton performance.

Well, another thought: if there is a Linux native port in the works, would original publisher intentionally break Proton compatibility to keep feasibility of the port?

i dont think so.
enix makes now more money with life is strange 2 and the proton users
why would they renounce that money and give it to feral?

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Quoting: ageres

Quoting: mylkasaddly only arkham origins works OOTB. knight ist totally borked.

Arkham Knight works in Wine Staging. I think it will run in Proton after its future updates.

that would be nice

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Quoting: skinnyrafWith Proton, it makes less and less sense to port old games. So probably no Skyrim, no Batman Arkham Knight or other old games anymore.

saddly only arkham origins works OOTB. knight ist totally borked. for the linux community it would make more sense to port batman, than hitman 2, becuase hitman 2 works OOTB
but i think they make more money with hitman 2. and it should be easy to port, because it is nearly the same game as hitman 1
Hitman: Absolution would be nice. its also totally borked

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