Quoting: slaapliedjeAnyone who knows anything about Google pretty much knew it. They try to diversify their businesses, but they almost always end up giving up on them and going back to 'give us data to sell ads to'

Maybe nowadays yes, but back then Stadia was still in beta and most of user were excited about the brand new Read Dead Redemption 2 support

Also kudos for @YoRHa-2B who apparently also saw that coming

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Quoting: Liam DaweIt's noted right in the article, and in their post. They will use Vosk.

Missed that part of Vosk, problems of reading while doing other things at same time

Quoting: Liam DaweDoesn't really matter if something is part of Windows, if Wine has its API updated to forward the calls once it has an implementation done - like everything it does.

Yep, I've stated that in case of an attempt to use Cortana itself like some cases with media foundation codecs for example (where users include the missing libraries, not wine). Fortunately since they choose the sane option of directing the api calls to an already open source alternative (rather than develop an wine version of it), now it's a matter of how well it will performs in practice and how much time it'll be ready since it's still a lot of work to do something like this.

Also Proton might gain a few extra megabytes if Valve opt to include whatever Vosk lib they need as a dependency (judging by a scenario where more games could depend on it besides Phasmophobia).

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I remember that I've asked here if anyone knew how they workaround Cortana in this game and had no answer, but it seems that it wasn't the case yet as I suspected.

I really curious about how they intend to solve this one, since voice recognition is part of windows itself rather than a package that comes with the game. They might have to thrown those calls in another voice recognition API because they can't just use Cortana outside windows for legal reasons, and as far as I know, they also can't just translate the calls through wine because the game itself is just using a windows component instead of distributing it.

Long time ago, I've asked on their proton issue on Github if would be possible to redirect the calls to an open API like MycroftAI, but no answers on that either.

In my opinion the easiest way would be helping the original game developers to support a more independent voice API recognition (or rather Valve develop that API as part of "steam works" package), because I can't imagine the immense amount of work it would take wine developers to re implement Microsoft voice recognition, and I think there aren't universal standards on those kind of software yet.

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Quoting: Philadelphus

Quoting: BielFPs[…]drive people out of windows is not Valve's goal in anyway[…]

Yes, it really is. Valve have basically said this [External Link] on multiple occasions,and their actions back it up.

Read the whole article you've linked, and couldn't find any claim of that, actually it's more similar to what I've said in my answer to purple guy:

Quoting: BielFPsfor not being dependent from other company decisions

All this effort is Valve driving out themselves from Microsoft system, not it's users, I know it may sound weird but there's a difference on that. If the goal of Valve was to "Defeat evil Windows by making Linux to rise as the supreme OS on desktop" like some passionate linux users seems to think (not talking about you of course), they could simply stop supporting their steam windows client and tell everyone to install linux (or only steamOS) to keep using steam. Of course they will never do this because they would only lose a lot of money/user base and would open a "power vacuum" on windows gaming scenario for a competitor to fill.

Quoting: PhiladelphusMicrosoft could, at any time, change to a closed system where Steam doesn't run and cut off ~95% of their revenue; every Linux or Mac gamer (or simply "gamer not exclusively on Windows") is a hedge against this possibility. Whether or not Microsoft will ever do this is another discussion,

Microsoft may be greedy and rely on shady practices but they aren't stupid, they know there's no scenario nowadays where they can succeed forcing lock in practices on desktop like they tried to do back to win 8 years (or like they succeed back in the 90's). Valve efforts with SteamOS and the backlash of other fronts made sure they learnt this lesson. Nowadays It's more likely to see Microsoft software running in other systems than they pushing out third party software out of their systems, for example .NET becoming open source was a consequence of they realizing that they would start to lose market if they kept lock in practices in scenarios where are already strong competitors (like game stores).

Nowadays Microsoft EEE stands for: Embrace, Extend, Embed.

Quoting: Philadelphusbut Valve clearly feel existentially threatened by this fact and have since the release of Windows 8.

Yes

Quoting: PhiladelphusThey've been working for around a decade on getting gamers off of Windows so that they're no longer dependent on Microsoft.

string gamers = "themselves";

Quoting: PhiladelphusThey're also a small company, and don't have unlimited resources; they're putting out Windows drivers to support their "it's just a portable PC!" talking point, but they're not going to spend a single minute more than they have to supporting Windows when Steam OS still needs work.

Valve is in no way a "small company" they're the owner of the current biggest game store on the planet, to the point of steam being the synonym of "PC gaming" for a lot of people, they're to game store scenario what windows is to desktop os, and here is where I want to make the point.

Windows(OS) and Steam(client) aren't necessary direct competitors, simple because Valve (steam) profits whenever you are buying to play on Windows / MacOS / Linux, and Valve doesn't need to "spent" a penny on driver support because Microsoft will mostly take care of that. Why would they do this you may ask? Because for Microsoft is "bad" if people don't install Windows on Deck, but for Valve is "good" to have both systems supported because their profit comes from steam (client) and hardware sells (deck), and not from SteamOS, that only serve as a mean to be independent from Microsoft/any other company and to not be bound to software limitations on their hardware.

The only case I can think of Deck support windows being "bad" for Valve is if Microsoft does this while also pushes they own store (or a competitor), otherwise it's a win/not lose situation to them.

To conclude my point of view: People dropping Windows in favor of Linux might be a consequence of those efforts but not Valve's main goal.

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Quoting: PhiladelphusAnd Valve have been VERY VOCAL that they ARE NOT HAPPY with being dependent on Microsoft as a result. :wink: If they were happy with the situation, the Deck would've come with Windows. Microsoft has nothing to tempt them with, because they're already printing money

Supporting another system is different from "being dependent" of it, Valve already reach this objective with SteamOS. My point is that Valve doesn't have any monetary gain by not having windows working on deck, which does not mean they will change SteamOS for windows (they won't)

and as long as they're dependent on Windows they have the Damocles' sword of Microsoft cutting off their revenue model at a stroke hanging over their heads. They've been trying to move players away from Windows since they ported Steam to MacOS and Linux. And now that they finally, possibly, have a chance to do so? Yeah, Microsoft has zero leverage over them any more.

Quoting: BielFPsFriendly reminder that most of Valve's income is selling games for Windows users

Again, supporting other SO =/= being dependent, drive people out of windows is not Valve's goal in anyway, this is a consequence of people who already wish to move away from it and now they have more reasons to.

Quoting: Purple Library GuyPersonally I think you are mistaken, for the reasons Philadelphus outlined. If they were thinking the way you think they are thinking, they wouldn't have done SteamOS in the first place, they'd have just released on Windows from the start.

Two reasons for that: Windows is not a free system, which obviously means they can't distribute that without paying Microsoft and for not being dependent from other company decisions (and they already achieved that unlike their competitors :smile:).

I wish Valve could give a middle finger to Windows just like the next guy here, but I'm old enough to realize Valve as a company has not to gain from doing this because they profit from both of them and right now it's a fact that most of their income comes from Windows users.

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Quoting: Purple Library GuySeparate issue. Valve might (although I don't really think so) reorient the thing more towards Windows for the sake of all the Windows users in their customer base, if they get sufficiently restless. They will not do so because Microsoft gives them $$, which is what you were suggesting.

Using $ on the equation doesn't always mean "I'll pay you to support my OS", this could be a scenario which Microsoft says "Hey Valve, we had some engineer to curate Windows on steam deck hardware, so we only a$k you to make an small effort on your client in order to users get a similar experience if they opt to install windows". In this scenario, Valve still makes more money by selling hardware and software to more potential costumers (without have to support / maintain this use case alone) and Microsoft keeps users bounded to their system. In this scenario would be a win/win situation for Valve and Microsoft in my opinion.

Of course, Microsoft could also do this without any of Valve's help, or even do the opposite and launch a "xbox deck" to compete with.

All am I'm saying is that personally I don't think this "Windows not supported" scenario will last for a long time.

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Quoting: Purple Library GuyLeast of our worries. Valve have plenty of $$$, what they want is future-proofing and Microsoft cannot give them that and would not if it could.

Friendly reminder that most of Valve's income is selling games for Windows users

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Quoting: Guest"we are providing these resources as is and are unfortunately unable to offer 'Windows on Deck' support"

I hope they stick with that and don't cave to any pressure. Keep devel and support focused on SteamOS and FOSS so we all benefit in the long run.

I hope Microsoft doesn't a$k Valve to reconsider

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has now put up the tools needed under open source licenses.

Music to developer's ears

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