Quoting: CatKillerI think it's fair to say that Feral aren't anti-DRM, and they seem to have taken some Internet person's alleged exhortation that people should pirate their games very personally, since they seem to mention it whenever they talk to Liam, so that's unlikely to change. But my understanding was that their contracts with these ports mean that they get paid when people buy the ported version, and GOG doesn't provide a way to determine that. People often grumble about the dev-side infrastructure of GOG. The Windows publishers aren't going to give Feral some money on the off chance that some of the sales of their Windows games are actually being played on Linux. So if Feral put a game on GOG they won't get paid, and it will take a sale away from a platform where they will get paid. Not a good option. GOG would need better tooling and to actually care about Linux ports on their store before the DRM issue even comes up.

Yeah that sound pretty reasonable. An addition reason not to go GOG might be that the costs to have (and support) another distribution channel might just not worth the extra few sales they might get.

Last edited by jens on 5 Jun 2020 at 5:51 pm UTC

Quoting: ShmerlNot sure what stops GOG from doing that. They have stats on platforms downloads, so they should be able to estimate the percentage of Linux users who bought the game.

Well, they'd have to actually want to, first. Every indication is that they don't.

It's easy to make a sale and send a cheque to a publisher. Writing a cheque to one of two publishers based on platform is more work, of the kind that you'd do if you wanted platform ports on your store. Valve want that, so they do the work.

Last edited by CatKiller on 5 Jun 2020 at 4:18 pm UTC

Quoting: jensYeah that sound pretty reasonable. Another reason not to go GOG might be that the costs to have (and support) another distribution channel might just not worth the extra few sales they might get.

That amounts to being pro-DRM, since the game offered from their own site has no DRM-free version. I.e. they themselves did nothing to provide DRM-free release.

Also, GOG is not the only DRM-free option out there. There are other stores that may be can calculate platforms stats better. So it amounts likely to simply Feral not being interested.

Last edited by Shmerl on 5 Jun 2020 at 4:41 pm UTC

Quoting: CatKiller

Quoting: ShmerlNot sure what stops GOG from doing that. They have stats on platforms downloads, so they should be able to estimate the percentage of Linux users who bought the game.

Well, they'd have to actually want to, first. Every indication is that they don't.

It's easy to make a sale and send a cheque to a publisher. Writing a cheque to one of two publishers based on platform is more work, of the kind that you'd do if you wanted platform ports on your store. Valve want that, so they do the work.

But how exactly this works on Steam? I don't use is so tell me if I'm wrong... but you just buy a game you don't choose which version (Linux/macOS or just Windows) you want. Valve can pay properly the devs/porters because of the Steam launcher they know what game/version you play.
But that doesn't prevent you to play any version of the game as you purchased a game, not a version.

So, maybe, the issue with GOG is that you can/could download all versions of the game (you have the right to), and just play it offline, whatever version you want, and with that they couldn't precisely know what you playing and who have to be payed.

Am I right?

If that's really the issue here, I think we (GOG, devs, players) could a proper solution, it can't be that hard...

Quoting: CyrilBut how exactly this works on Steam?

It defaults to Windows, if you buy a game through the browser or phone app and don't play it for two weeks.

If you buy a game through a desktop client and don't play it for two weeks, it counts as a sale for that platform.

At the end of two weeks it counts as a sale for whichever platform has the most play time. Play time through Proton counts as Linux play time.

Quoting: CatKiller

Quoting: CyrilBut how exactly this works on Steam?

It defaults to Windows, if you buy a game through the browser or phone app and don't play it for two weeks.

If you buy a game through a desktop client and don't play it for two weeks, it counts as a sale for that platform.

At the end of two weeks it counts as a sale for whichever platform has the most play time. Play time through Proton counts as Linux play time.

Thanks for clarification, so I was right, It's based on the Steam launcher as a whole, without it (like GOG) it seems there is no way to have a share between versions.
GOG have to find another solution as they can't force players to use Galaxy, and for Linux players that would be kind of a joke...

Life is Strange and LiS: Before the Storm are available on GOG, without Linux version of course.

So there's no chance of a Linux version on GOG?

I've been waiting for it to appear on GOG for years, now it's finally here, but no Linux version? That's just too disappointing. :(

Last edited by Gooda on 5 Jun 2020 at 5:19 pm UTC

Quoting: Gooda

Life is Strange and LiS: Before the Storm are available on GOG, without Linux version of course.

So there's no chance of a Linux version on GOG?

I've been waiting for it to appear on GOG for years, now it's finally here, but no Linux version? That's just too disappointing. :(

Unfortunately, don't count on it...

Quoting: CyrilThanks for clarification, so I was right, It's based on the Steam launcher as a whole, without it (like GOG) it seems there is no way to have a share between versions.
GOG have to find another solution as they can't force players to use Galaxy, and for Linux players that would be kind of a joke...

GOG analyze user agent of the download, so they do have that info. Question is how they are using it. It sounds like they don't give access to that to publishers and developers.

Last edited by Shmerl on 5 Jun 2020 at 5:32 pm UTC

Quoting: Shmerl

Quoting: jensYeah that sound pretty reasonable. Another reason not to go GOG might be that the costs to have (and support) another distribution channel might just not worth the extra few sales they might get.

That amounts to being pro-DRM, since the game offered from their own site has no DRM-free version. I.e. they themselves did nothing to provide DRM-free release.

Also, GOG is not the only DRM-free option out there. There are other stores that may be can calculate platforms stats better. So it amounts likely to simply Feral not being interested.

I realize my wording wasn't that cool, what I actually wanted to say was:

An additional reason not to go GOG might be that the costs to have (and support) another distribution channel might just not worth the extra few sales they might get.

So yeah, there is certainly no interest, whatever the reason or reasons might be.

I would love to have Feral release DRM free versions but I still feel that supporting them is the right way to go as they release the bulk of AAA games onto Linux. If I want to play AAA games on Linux my main options are through Steam or buying Windows versions from GOG/Itch.io and using Wine. With those options I feel supporting DRM native versions is better for the platform as a whole. Until AAA studios start making their own Linux ports this will continue to be an issue. Luckily indie game developers give me lots of DRM free games to play so overall it's not like I am without games to play. I'll continue to email Feral every time a games goes DRM free without their LInux version in hopes one day they do the right thing.

Last edited by PublicNuisance on 6 Jun 2020 at 5:26 am UTC

I don't think Feral's business model is sustainable in the long run. More and more studios are making Linux games in-house. That also coincidentally makes it easier to release them on GOG.

They should simply restructure to making their own games.

Last edited by Shmerl on 7 Jun 2020 at 3:06 am UTC

Quoting: ShmerlMore and more studios are making Linux games in-house.

It doesn't seem to me that there are more big Linux games than before. What was the last AAA game with a Linux version? Even indie games [prefer to rely on Proton](https://steamcommunity.com/app/813630/discussions/0/2147595624103240347/#c2297346107926244926).

Studios that release for Stadia have Linux developers in-house now. So if they ever want to release for normal Linux, they won't need external porting.

IF. But will it ever happen? I'm quite pessimistic about that. Feral have made many Linux ports exclusively for Steam despite it would've been easy to sell them on GOG as well. The same with Stadia ports. They do exist, but it doesn't mean they will ever be available outside of Stadia servers.

My point is, whether it will happen doesn't depend on Feral. Those who want to do it, will do it, Feral or not. Before they needed external porters like Feral, but now they can do it in-house. To sum it up - demand for external porting will simply decline.

Last edited by Shmerl on 7 Jun 2020 at 4:16 am UTC

Quoting: ShmerlI don't think Feral's business model is sustainable in the long run. More and more studios are making Linux games in-house. That also coincidentally makes it easier to release them on GOG.

They should simply restructure to making their own games.

More and more indie studios maybe but not more and more AAA studios. I have little faith or optimism that developers making games for Stadia will make native Linux versions. I will be happy to be wrong but time will tell.

Yeah, Feral are in a difficult place with having to pester developers into making Linux ports on the one side and the effectiveness of Proton on the other.

Maybe they could sustain themselves mainly with their console ports and release Linux versions where they can get the developers to agree to it. I recall that some of their Linux people left, though.

The thing that you wouldn't know if you don't buy Feral games is that it's not the ports themselves that are the big draw - although they're good - it's the support. You can compare Aspyr's not being bothered to make Borderlands 2 work (or Rocket League, for an "in-house" example) with Feral's creation of game mode, or the "Fixed graphical corruption in Vulkan game F1 2017" line in the changelog for Nvidia's driver that happened because Feral made it happen.

They're still of value to us, and they're still of value to developers, even in a post-Proton post-Stadia world. It would be a real shame if there's not enough business to sustain them making Linux ports.

Last edited by CatKiller on 7 Jun 2020 at 5:38 am UTC

Quoting: PublicNuisanceMore and more indie studios maybe but not more and more AAA studios.

Stadia happened, so that includes what you call "AAA" studios (I dislike that term though, it's pretty useless).

Last edited by Shmerl on 7 Jun 2020 at 5:54 am UTC

No one's going to flock to sell on GOG. If the devs have a firm anti-DRM stance then they're on there already, and absent that GOG is just a tiny store with limited reach and bad tooling.