Quoting: peta77

Quoting: CatKillerto the Deck's 1280×800 @ 30 fps

Actually the display does 60Hz according to their current specs on its homepage.

It does, but that's not their target.

For my desktop gaming rig I wouldn't be satisfied with a framerate that's less than the refresh rate, but that's not their required performance level. If it can hit 30 fps (especially if it's a locked 30 fps) that's good enough by their metric, the same as the consoles.

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Quoting: denyasisSo what's the target audience and game type? Indie titles? Older titles? Hobbyists? Kids?

All of the above, as well as people deeply into PC gaming that want to play away from a desktop, TV, or permanent flat surface.

I mean I don't think say, CyberPunk 2077 is gonna run on it. What about The Witcher 3, or Total War: What ever we're up to?

Total War is going to be limited by form factor rather than performance. You could hook it up to a monitor and mouse, but then you might as well use a different device.** All the rest will be fine. C77 would be particularly good if they made a native version, since the Stadia version was said to be the best one of the bunch.

The hardware is solid; the big constraint is the 15 W power/cooling limit. While modern games are chasing high resolution and high refresh rates they'll scale down to the Deck's 1280×800 @ 30 fps target fine; if modern games switch to chasing the pretties they'll be using more compute shaders, which are expensive, and the Deck will run bang into its power limit.*

It's also a handheld Steam Link for those titles it doesn't have the grunt to handle itself.

* Some numbers to clarify what I mean. Let's say that the next gen's "standard target" is 4K @ 120. The Deck's aiming for ~one eighth the resolution and a quarter of the framerate, so it only needs to squeeze out 1/32 of the work. That's largely doable. If, instead, the next gen is aiming for the absolute prettiest 1080p30 image they can generate with their massive power budget, the Deck still needs to do around half of that with its teeny tiny battery. Not gonna happen.

** Information-dense games that rely on very precise mouse movements won't be a great fit because of the small screen and lack of mouse. First/third person games, platformers, fighting games, racing games, and games that only need loose mouse control will be fine. Basically, anything you could expect to play on a console you can now play on the toilet.

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Quoting: Purple Library Guy

Quoting: Alm888

Quoting: CatKillerPeople have already experienced what it's like to have the whole industry under Microsoft's control, and I don't think they're keen to have that continue indefinitely.

Honestly, IMO, most people do not care about underlying technology.

I think CatKiller was referring to developers, not "most people".

Yes. Well, the ecosystem.

People don't seem to generally use Windows because they like using Windows, but because it's where developers put their applications and because it's what came with their computer. Historically, Microsoft were ruthless about maintaining those pillars and making sure that no competitor was visible or viable. For them it was a virtuous cycle, and for everyone else it was chicken and egg.

Microsoft fought the Browser Wars so hard because they knew that if people wrote applications for the Internet then Microsoft would lose its platform grip on developers. And that's what happened, albeit later than it could have been. On the hardware front, Microsoft made sure that they got paid for every purchase - whether it used their OS or not - to prevent anyone else being able to compete on price. They managed it with PCs and phones.

Microsoft of the 90s seemed undefeatable; Microsoft now seems like they've already lost. But it might all be wishful thinking.

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Quoting: Alm888Overall, if we look at the picture as a whole, it seems this is a market share war and Microsoft seems to be the lead in this "dance". Valve does not act; it reacts to Microsoft's input.

I might have my rose-tinted glasses on, but I'm not sure that's true. Srs bsns is done on Linux. Microsoft have lost the overall OS market to Google/Linux. They've lost the education market (getting the familiarity of the next generation of buyers) to Google/Linux. Their main moneymaker is based on Linux. Their flagship product, which used to be the linchpin of their iron grip, now comes with Linux. Their own gaming push is evolving into Gaming-as-a-Service.

If Microsoft said, "jump!" and Valve Just Said No, which way would devs go? How about after a high profile demonstration of Linux as a gaming platform? I don't know, but it seems to me that Microsoft are on the back foot. People have already experienced what it's like to have the whole industry under Microsoft's control, and I don't think they're keen to have that continue indefinitely.

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Quoting: MohandevirImo, the pre-orders was just a means to "test the waters". Now that they know there is a lot of interest, they should gear up for mass production accordingly. That's what I would do, at least.

Yeah, hope so. When the rumours started, it was clear that this could be a device that sold 10s of thousands or 10s of millions, without a way of telling in advance which it would be because it's so dependent on implementation specifics and market conditions, both of which are unknown. I just want everyone that wants one to be able to get one.

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But my backlooog...

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Quoting: fleskI find it very unlikely that Valve, a US company with a few hundred employees, just happens to have developers in each of the 27 EU member states and the UK.

We know they've got developers in the UK and we know they've got developers in Germany (read it somewhere recently, but can't remember where, so no citation. Apologies) so then it's just getting a courier to deliver them. No customs hassle taking them to anywhere in the EU (that being one of the purposes of the EU), but there could well be going outside of the EU.

Plus, it doesn't sound practical or cost saving to ship a few thousand units in bulk to a person in each of those countries, only for them to re-package and mail out individual units using local post services.

I was being somewhat facetious referring to them as "postmen." But, no, it's not particularly efficient. To get efficient they'd need a whole bunch of logistics infrastructure that they don't have, but the likes of Nintendo, Sony, Samsung, and whoever, do. Or hire out to a company that does have that kind of logistics coverage and that can get products in shops.

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Quoting: AppelsinYeah, but the thing is, they're selling it (or rather, it'll be available for order) all over Europe, except three countries, since we're not "part of the EU". Though they've inlcuded the UK, which afaik has even more hurdles atm with regards to import/export than EEA (we're EU, but we're kinda not).

It's not like I don't agree that they're going to have to do better, it's just that the limits of where they're selling them are because they aren't doing it themselves. The postmen in the countries that they've got developers go wherever the postmen go.

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Quoting: denyasisI've been trying to follow the discussion and would like your opinions.

We don't want developers telling us to go stick our head in a pig.

A native build doesn't guarantee that a game dev gives a damn about their Linux customers (see Rocket League, Supraland, others), but flinging their product over the wall hoping that Valve will fix it is a pretty strong indication that they aren't interested in their Linux customers, and will provide no recourse when they break it. They're just going to pocket the money.

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Quoting: subIf Valve is serious about Linux, I'd still propose charging like 5 % less Valve fee if the published game features a Linux build.

That wouldn't help.

Sure, it would encourage them to press the "build for Linux" button for some free money, which is more than many devs do, but it wouldn't encourage them to do any testing or provide any support. At all.

"But," you might say, "the discount should only apply to proper Linux versions, not those other ones," and suddenly Valve has to be a gatekeeper, creating lots of uncertainty for devs as to whether they'll have their funds withheld, and Valve are having to do (a lot) more work in exchange for less money.

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