Quoting: ShabbyXI love my deck, don't get me wrong, it's awesome for travel, and gets me to sleep earlier since I can play in bed until I drop asleep, but the fact that the screen and controls are in the same place (true for every handheld) is tiring for the body.

Ideally, you want to look straight into a screen, while holding the controls low so your arms are in rest position. With handhelds, you either have to hold the heavy thing up for your neck to have a better time, or bend your neck down for hours for your arms to not get tired.

I'm back on spending more time on my deck these days, but I don't think I can sustain that.

This is what i was getting at (earlier in the thread), that a 14" laptop or a GPD win type device with a movable screen would maybe be better for me long term as you can position it where you want and lay it flat on a cheap tray for bed / couch use and it's still a portable device with great battery life. The only and major downside of these two options is the ridiculous pricing. If GPD ( or another brand ) would make a cheaper steam deck priced competitor with decent x86 hardware rivaling that of the steam deck, id prefer that kind of arrangement for a more long term solution. The new versions of GPD seem to be moving towards handheld rather than compact gaming laptop so im not sure this is going to happen.

possible cheaper alternative for bed/couch is to simply buy a kick stand for a deck and place it on a tray then use a bluetooth controller.

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Quoting: PenglingDepending on how far your own definition of "retro" goes (I know that this varies, even amongst retro fans!), this sort of thing is probably better served by a Raspberry Pi, really. :smile:

ohh i have a pi400 but i find it slow and unreliable. it's not a good plaform imo, i cant even make it play 1080p60 video on youtube it's just not powerful enough, but i have a mini celeron PC for that which works fine even at 4k.

Emulation wise typically PS1 games, but PS2 also, i do know the steam deck is not a do it all device for emulation. On my PC i can easily emulate PS3 at 4k and that's where about id like to be for a TV emulation box. I also like to run decent quality shaders on games and from what i have seen 800p isn't enough pixels to properly get close to that CRT effect, hence why id like a higher resolution handheld eventually. Id imagine a steam deck 2 in a few years will handle everything PS3 and under at a decent resolution when docked to the TV, that is if it does not have a USB5 port for an e-gpu or a dock with a gpu built in as an option from valve.

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Quoting: F.Ultra

Quoting: Lofty

Quoting: F.UltraThe thing is that those old games where created with the notion that the display was fuzzy and not sharp and detailed as they are now and an OLED is just as sharp and detailed as any LCD. What OLED brings to the table is CRT like (and in some cases like my monitor, better) handling of black and increased color+brightness capabilities.

well that's not strictly true. You personally may not perceive a softness to an image (and im sure on a small low res screen like the steam decks it might be even harder to tell) but there are many threads on OLED monitors (perhaps not so much on a large TV as you sit further back) that comment on the sub pixel layout of OLED and how for desktop use it is softer and much better for gaming than desktop productivity. And that this is something that is not likely to be fixed any time soon. Right now LCD is sharper.

Yes I have seen lots of such claims, especially from people online vomiting over my LG 45GR95QE-B since it's both a WOLED and 45" UW 1440p and thus have a DPI that is just slightly above that of a 27" 1080p but to me this is mostly BS. At work I have a high end 32" 4K LCD from Samsung and it is by all means not that much sharper than my OLED at home.

Online people claim that it is impossible to work with text on my monitor while I as a programmer do tons of work with text (and often in terminal windows) with zero issues. If this means that they are all wrong or that Gnome happens to be better at text on this sub pixel layout than Windows is I don't know since I don't run Windows but text and/or sharpness is a complete non issue.

Plus to get back to context, even if that would be true it would be nothing compared with the fuzziness that existed even on the really high end CRT:s (and I used seriously high end CRT:s at work back before LCD:s took over) due to their analogue nature (#1 the signal was analogue and #2 the ray painting the image can not hit the exact same spot with infinite precision). Combine that with the low resolution of 8-bit monitors of 320x200 / 320x160 depending on PAL/NTSC fed over analogue composite.

Gnome does seem to handle font's a bit better im my experience. One of my screens is a 24.5" 1080p screen running Gnome wayland and it looks okay at a suitable distance, but it's the lowest PPI i could possibly handle. I assume you sit further back with it being a giant 45" screen. Also it seems that the 45GR95QE-B does not flicker like the steam deck, seen as i have already looked previously at reviews of the LG and have seen no issues (id actually like a 5k version of that screen)

everyone has their acceptable preferences with regards to clarity,some people have returned OLED because they for some reason don't like it's color presentation. But i wouldn't assume that they are all wrong across the many forums mostly they base their experiences on other OLED's at 27" to 34" with a 109ppi vs your smaller 83ppi. Although, how many people actually own these screens vs theoretically disliking i cannot tell. On balance there is an issue, but not everyone is sensitive to it.

Quoting: F.Ultralower lifespan was an issue before 2016 as already discussed, the OLED panels since then have 2x the lifespan of a LCD one

I must of missed that bit of the discussion. OLED burn in is still a thing. its one of the reasons i believe the pricing has been so surprisingly competitive with mini-LED panels. Where is the study that shows OLED to last twice the length of an LCD screen ? I have LCD screens from 2012 with 10's of thousands of hours on working just fine like the day i bought it.

Quoting: F.Ultravisible ABL, can be an issue the few times it hits but IMHO beats the bleed from LCD:s backlight every single day of the week.

ABL still looks weird to me, personally i prefer a more consistent visual experience. i don't have backlight bleed on any of my LCD monitors. Im not disputing the pure black of OLED of course. it's just my screens are black enough for my tastes.

Quoting: F.Ultra* fans are a problem on some models, mine not at all, completely silent

So your screen has a fan ? I don't want a monitor that needs a fan TBH.

The power consumption on OLED is higher than LCD. which may or may not bother the end user. But i like to keep my energy bill & heat in room as low as possible. Like i said each technology has its strengths and weaknesses.

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Thanks for the great write up :smile:

Im interested in a steam deck (more so 8" handhelds with better 1200p / 1600p screens). but i also can't help but wonder if just buying a 14" laptop with an integrated GPU (even if it's no more than just 20- 30% more powerful than the deck') wouldn't be a better idea and just installing HoloOS / Chimera etc, and adding a bluetooth controller. i mean i get portability, but i don't play games outside of the house, or on the toilet lol. In bed or couch i could use a small cheap laptop tray (that could also house my drink) to place it on. Everything else other than holding it myself would be in theory better hardware wise (perhaps not the speakers).
I suppose there is the GPD Win, but the pricing isn't there yet. perhaps the next alteration with a 8" screen with better analogues might be what i would need, but again other than holding it myself a 14" laptop would probably be similar. i still have my gaming pc but im not sure the idea of carrying something from room to room justifies the expense. id probably dock the deck to the TV and just play retro games anyway.

i guess though price is a factor too.a similar powered laptop is a few hundred more at least. i think id buy the reduced price LCD model if it was available in store so i could return if i did not like it.

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Quoting: F.UltraThe thing is that those old games where created with the notion that the display was fuzzy and not sharp and detailed as they are now and an OLED is just as sharp and detailed as any LCD. What OLED brings to the table is CRT like (and in some cases like my monitor, better) handling of black and increased color+brightness capabilities.

well that's not strictly true. You personally may not perceive a softness to an image (and im sure on a small low res screen like the steam decks it might be even harder to tell) but there are many threads on OLED monitors (perhaps not so much on a large TV as you sit further back) that comment on the sub pixel layout of OLED and how for desktop use it is softer and much better for gaming than desktop productivity. And that this is something that is not likely to be fixed any time soon. Right now LCD is sharper.

Quoting: tuubiYou're forgetting or ignoring the fact that we mostly wanted higher refresh rates for CRTs to reduce the eye destroying flicker, not to make games run smoother or whatever. Whereas an LCD doesn't really have a flicker problem, even with the old fluorescent backlights.

true, but well there are monitors with PWM and that causes eye strain and flicker on both technologies you mentioned. thats the whole 'flicker free' thing you look out for when buying a new monitor.

Quoting: PenglingHowever, it doesn't change that fact that, for me personally, I simply can't look at these displays without pain! I really hope that LCD remains an option with the eventual Deck 2.

people may not be aware that the OLED's can actually flicker ( it may not be visible to the naked eye but i imagine there are some people sensitive to this) Some TV's push this flicker way out of band and it becomes a non issue, but on energy saving devices like a steam deck it 'Might' be an issue that creeps over time and makes your eyes tired even if you cannot perceive it.

I was watching a review and noticed the difference between Steam deck OLED and LCD straight away:

https://youtu.be/FspKHot0Ckk?t=382 [External Link]

Also OLED's dependent on manufacturer and firmware have large brightness fluctuations and usually an aggressive ABL ( auto brightness limiter ) which can dim the screen quite a lot. There's a recent review i watched where the screen will dim aggressively on steam deck OLED when looking at a bright object and its quite noticeable like those early cheap LCD TV's that didnt control the brightness properly on light to dark scenes. Mini LED does not do this for example (but it has its own issues)

So the OLED hype is partially justified but i would not write off LCD just yet.

OLED has:

lower lifespan
visible ABL dimming
Softer image
high power draw requiring a heatsink / fan on TV's / Monitors
dependent on display manufacturer/firmware there can be issues around color banding

its not perfect but for Black level and response time its obviously amazing. The reason there is more color saturation here is more likely down to the fact the original deck screen was not the greatest. That said in terms of response time, the occulus VR headset has a response time as fast as a CRT and that is an LCD display. So it all really depends on the model and how it is setup.

no screen technology is perfect. Id like to see a better quality tuned micro-led display as an option for future, perhaps with a 1200p resolution. leaving the option for LCD or OLED as a choice.

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Quoting: kaiman

Quoting: Pecisk"Fixed Old School Runescape and other games on systems with 128+ virtual cores."

Sounds like somewhere some Admin is really bored while sitting in their Datacenter :-D.

or maybe this is a hint towards valve offering a streaming service from said data center,

perhaps for older simpler games.

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Quoting: SakuretsuHe certainly wasn't the only one behind all that shitstorm.

Getting rid of him alone doesn't solve things.

Does it need solving though ?

A corporate game engine entity like this can be bad for gamers & Linux in long run as you never know when the next draconian policy is going to come along and create issues. Not just effecting future titles, but potentially any past titles on said engine you might want to revisit in years to come.

GODOT on the other hand is less of a liability and is more future proof and trustworthy.

Maybe we have to let Unity engine wither away, and support new increasingly capable and upcoming opensource technologies.

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Quoting: Purple Library GuyI read the letter . . . sounds like it's been really tough, and I feel for him.

But it really hit me, the way he was writing it's like there's some kind of massive 2008-style recession. But in the broader economy, there isn't really. North America's basically OK by recent standards except for insanely expensive housing, which is a really big deal but I mean unemployment is low and economic growth seems to be happening. As I understand it Britain is in tough shape, mostly due to a series of self-inflicted wounds and self-inflicted Conservative governments, and Germany's not doing well because of expensive/scarce natural gas due to geopolitical reasons, but overall it doesn't seem like the general economy is as bad as the situation seems to be for gaming companies. Anyone know why the gaming industry in particular is in bad shape?

afaik recent numbers show the UK is also getting in better shape and has higher growth than Germany so the economic situation is similar to the US in those terms. But terrible housing quality, overcrowding, crippled essential services, polluted water systems etc.. proves that a country cannot survive on 'GDP' alone.

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Regarding the online requirement, i feel sorry for the Unity executives here. They just wanted to objectively fabricate a fully tested web-readiness environment that globally communicates impactful niche markets and competently mesh alternative values with their professionally scaled competitive content, and holistically incentivize real-time web services.

what the frick is so hard to understand about that.. geez

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ahh yes the thin illusionary veneer of the separation of corporation and state. i think there is a name for that but i can't quite remember..

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