Quoting: SalvatosThe amount of electronic waste would be dizzying.

Certainly most things in our throw away society could be described as such, where do you draw the line ? How much waste realistically is a tiny microSD card (fractions of plastic and sand) connected into a SD card reader to PC vs running vast town sized data centers for downloading and the associated electricity costs. Not to mention, not everyone would use this option probably a minority. So im not sure how much more wasteful if you did a cost analysis on it considering if you had a big enough microSD it could double as storage for your steamdeck.
Are people to stop owning things altogether? why can't you recycle the SD card and use it for other things.

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Quoting: GuestThat's how it all used to work back in the magazine days of old.

I miss those days! Amiga magazines were amazing, often offering two discs of games, software programs, utilities & Demo scene stuff.

id even be happy if valve rolled out a cloud streaming service just for the purpose of Demoing games with a 2hr limit (to alleviate bandwidth concerns on both ends).. Although, when you download them at least you can see if they work on your system specs / platform so there is that and maybe with anti-cheat in the works for proton that's not so much of a concern anymore.

but yea long live the Amiga.

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Quoting: Purple Library Guy

Quoting: Lofty

Quoting: CatKillerI expect those videos to end with "Windows on this device kinda sucks."

why ?

For one, because if you install Windows, and then install Steam's "new big picture == same interface as the Deck" on it, every time you start the device you'll still be booting into Windows and only then using your controller stuff (which Windows is not intended for) to start Steam. It'd be a pain.
Keeping SteamOS on, you boot and your games are right there.

A truly minor inconvenience for those few committed to running Windows. If they have installed windows on the steam deck, they can probably manage to click using the built in mouse on a large steam icon on the desktop that boots directly into big picture mode. Heck, why am i even saying click ? they can touchscreen the icon and automatically boot into big picture mode (or whatever it is to be called) it could not be easier. (im assuming you know that booting into BP mode is an option in Steam).

It's actually possible to boot directly into steam on boot in windows too just like the Linux steamos/compmgr session login option on Linux. That doesn't require much tinkering but if someone is running windows on the Steamdeck then they probably want to be able to tap to launch all the other stores too so will probably just resort to pressing their finger on the icon. It might be better on Linux if Valve have found a nice way of using the EA/Origin client without needing to goto desktop to run the respective 3rd Party clients and all the trouble was removed from this process just like on console. That would be slicker than windows without a doubt.

I didn't say it would be better but that's a price those dedicated to windows will happily do in order to run a wider catalogue of games and software at potentially better performance. I don't expect too many people to do this initially at least.

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Quoting: Alm888

Quoting: whizse

Quoting: F.UltraWell to be honest in order to fulfil "that will tell games if they're being run on the Steam Deck" that API could be just /etc/os-release :-)

Z:\\etc\os-release :tongue:

Wrong!
 
HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\Wine\Version:tongue:

Quoting: ArtenI don't think that windows game runing under proton can access linux filesystem.

It can (by default root directory is mounted as Z: drive). So a Linux-aware Windows virus can access ones "host" filesystem and, let's say, encrypt all the files it can grab.

WINE developers warn everybody: WINE is NOT a sandbox!

Does running Steam via Flatpak improve the situation ? What about Steam Linux Runtime, they are containerized games are they not ?

I think one of the great things about the steamdeck and SteamOS3.0 in general is the ability to run this as a separate OS where you don't also have all your personal files stored, perhaps either as a dual boot, isolated login or on a completely separate device.

The Steam client isn't exactly a model of privacy in itself by nature. There has been an increasing feature creep for for a while now. It's basically a glorified Discord with full system remote control access, audio & video desktop broadcast output. depending on what features you turn off. Im happy to use a steamOS device separately from my main PC be that a Steamdeck , SteamOS-3.0 console build.

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Quoting: CatKiller

Quoting: Loftywhy ?

People have been trying to replicate the rough performance of the Steam Deck on existing hardware. When they've done so, they've found that using Linux gives better performance than using Windows.

I think it will be close between the two systems. No normal user has the hardware available just yet to test side by side. I think in some cases Linux will definitely be faster, but time will tell. Perhaps Valves work with AMD to improve efficiency will help but wouldn't they just release those driver improvements on windows too.

Quoting: CatKillerThe review of the Onexplayer suggested that the Windows interface just wasn't that great without a keyboard and mouse.

As just linked direct from Valve HQ, the exact same UI experience is coming to Windows 11 on the Steamdeck™. And im sure a scaled version of this is to arrive on Desktop/laptop and for BPM to be discontinued. Within 6 or so months of it's release there will be little to nothing to visually differentiate between a Steamdeck™ on Windows and Linux. you have said that's a good thing. But that's a matter of opinion depending on the idea of generating Linux exclusivity as a treat to keep people on the system.

Quoting: CatKillerWindows updates are apparently brutal.

Slow internet user here. So are frequent Arch Linux updates. So are continually refreshing, hundreds of MB Vulkan shaders updates for every game.

Quoting: CatKillerUntil they do whatever it is, they're essentially a Microsoft subsidiary.

Pre-installed Linux gaming is the product here, and the hardware is just the delivery vehicle. If Microsoft pulled the plug on them, for whatever reason, Valve need to find a way to keep their customers; that's their driving motivation.

Yes of course and that can be done without Linux ultimately. They would have to buddy upto MS, pay a toll or try for native linux ports again (wait that's already been tried.) Or maybe move to a cloud streaming model.

Who knows how aggressive MS will be about proton and Windows 'emulation' in future, they have the power to make a new APi (DX13) that everyone uses and takes months to be compatible with proton. Im okay with playing a vast library of Native,DX11.DX12 games but those people who might be from a Windows or even console background might be scratching their heads a bit.

I don't expect Microsoft to be as petty as this though.

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Quoting: The_AquabatI think that about 30% of people are die hard Windows users, likewise as Apple fanboys... they simply can't concieve there life without Windows. Millions will still install Windows on the Steam Deck, and there's nothing you can do about it.
But if, let's say, 50% of steam deck userbase remain on Linux, then it's mayor victory for Linux.

Linux will gain many users who don't know that they are using Linux, just like Andriod. Will those people even try desktop mode ? and if they do will that encourage them to drop windows and install it on their desktop PC ? I don't know. The best outcome for me personally is a focus on getting anti-cheat working and improvements to drivers. Will this even get devs interested in Linux when proton is available or will it just get them interested in the Steamdeck API for game UI adaptations and settings.

It's a Linux thing but at the same time, it's also not quite as much of a Linux thing to people outside of this community.

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Quoting: CatKillerI expect those videos to end with "Windows on this device kinda sucks."

why ? i mean watching this bit of the steamdeck hands on they state that the new UI is coming to windows shortly after. All things being equal the performance and compatibility should be higher on windows. I don't expect a mountain of people to do this honestly. But maybe when the novelty of using steamOS wears out perhaps.

https://youtu.be/jb6OWxORfY0?t=502 [External Link]

Quoting: CatKillerBut if people install Windows on it and genuinely prefer it, good for them. That's exactly what I'd want for installing Linux on all my computers. If it turns out that Valve haven't made Linux gaming compelling enough for the masses, so their customers are going to go through the hassle of installing fresh Windows on a device that comes with a different OS, then they aren't safe from Microsoft and they need to Linux harder.

Sure. At that point im not sure what more valve could do anyway for those kinds of people. Some people are just never going to compromise on absolute performance and compatibility by running Linux.
I remember a thread on a windows centered forum a year or so back when proton was really taking off, some news articles were dropping and the conversation got onto how far Linux had come, people were impressed for sure but even then the consensus was that if there was even a less than 5% drop in performance no matter how much freer, secure and private Linux was they would not switch. Not to mention the lack of other game stores (although im sure that's something that can be improved if this thing takes off)

I do like the idea that the deck(linux) gets the UI first at least but there has to be some reason to use the deck other than technical inability or laziness over installing windows+steam.

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Quoting: jrtI was very positively surprised by the LTT video. He didn't mention "installing Windows" or the current anticheat situation.
I think it's great that we are at a point where people can be hyped about a Desktop Linux device without a constant "but it would be better with windows".

Agree this is a real plus so far. I still kind of expect a tidal wave of YT videos on how to install windows, but if this trend continues and people stick to using Linux on the device then this really could be a watershed moment for Linux desktop adoption.

I can honestly see some vendors shipping laptops installed with SteamOS-3.0 and the KDE desktop enabled as default in future.

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Quoting: Eike

Quoting: LoftyThere's no effort required. Just choose a counter narrative and your given a special shiny hat and told to sit in the corner whilst all the big kids walk themselves off the edge of that existential cliff.

I've often heard this claim, but never actually seen anybody called conspiracy theorist that didn't actually tell, well, something that was a conspiracy theory in the end. I don't care if that was "effort" or "counter", it was nonsense (and it included many people doing secret stuff over them normal people).

i agree with your anecdotal evidence.

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Quoting: tuubi

Quoting: Lofty

Quoting: tuubi

Quoting: kuhpunktEmbrace, extend, extinguish?

There's bound to be an Extender Group looming in the background, biding their time to acquire Embracer, and finally an Extinguisher Group that snags the whole bunch just before they declare bankruptcy and go down in flames. (No, wait...)

Anyway, I'm sure it's all a big conspiracy.

Careful, having your own opinion is a conspiracy theory these days.

I've got plenty of opinions and I'm not shy about speaking my mind, yet nobody has ever called me a conspiracy theorist. Maybe I need to try harder?

There's no effort required. Just choose a counter narrative and your given a special shiny hat and told to sit in the corner whilst all the big kids walk themselves off the edge of that existential cliff.

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