That sounds and looks interesting!
So many games, so short of time...
(Who said "Enjoy your nothing!" lately...? ;) )

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Quoting: Luke_NukemSeriously, you're just being an ideological &§"$&§ if that makes you $§&§ the bed.

I'd propose you start behaving like a grown up.
You're welcome.

You don't need to follow my reasoning,
this is your decision just as well as mine is mine,
but you need to be respectful to other people.

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Quoting: GuestThe thing is, the games industry is not going to cater to your, quite frankly unreasonable whims. If you start demanding dumb stuff like this, they will choose to ignore you. Remember you are less than 1% of the market - you need them more than they need you!

First things first: You're not going to gain anything by calling stuff dumb.

The rest seems to be based on some missunderstandings.
* I'm not starting anything. I never wanted Windows binaries on Linux. (The wrapper discussion has already been a thing with The Witcher 2, so I wonder how you possibly could have missed it.) So, btw, you're not losing anything you ever had.
* I don't demand anything. You're as free to offer what you like as I am to take it or not.
* I don't need more from the gaming industry than I got. I'm already in a position where there's way more good games than I've got time to play (which is only in a smaller part based on the fact I got way less time nowadays).
* And finally - please correct me if I should be wrong here - the vast majority of the gaming industry supporting Linux is not using binary wrappers for recent games (only for older ones). So I cannot see this will be a problem for them... I cannot see you talking for "the games industry".

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Quoting: GuestIt's hilarious that there are people who actually give a shit what system the binaries are compiled on!

You really need to learn more about your (potential) customers.
We're not using Linux because we're ordinary.
Our specialties are of different kind, but you sure have to expect specialties.

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That's a very good sign. Valve's here to stay.

... and it seems he's from the same university as me. <3

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Quoting: Scoopta

Quoting: Luke_Nukem

Quoting: ScooptaVP doesn't port...they just wrap. I won't be buying this.

So? VP support Linux gaming, and bring us games we might otherwise not get.

Get over it.

Nah I'm good but thanks. If it's got windows binaries I'm not touching it with a 10 foot pole.

I don't get "Get over it." here either. Nothing to get over. All fine. It's not like there's starving if one chooses not to run Windows binaries. At least not me. I hope Luke is fine with his choices as well.

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Let me first say: This is the kind of answer where the reader feels respected.

Quoting: GuestMy frustration is that I and others have said all this before, many times, yet people choose to ignore it and insist that just because we are running Win32 targeted x86 code out of a PE binary, we must somehow be inferior in performance.

Sorry, but in this thread, you were the first one to talk about speed. Just looking at this thread, the frustration looks somewhat self-inflicted. (Of course, you picked it up somewhere else.)

I understand that it's frustrating losing customers on not-too-technical reasons. But you need to keep your target audience in mind. In the Linux case, it's people with strong feelings about some non-technical things. Some will not buy stuff with DRM, some will even not start anything they don't have the source code for. Others don't want Windows binaries. It's nothing you can do much against, so you shouldn't bother too much.

Of course, if you find untrue statements about your work, you want to go against it. Maybe putting up sort of an FAQ could help, to point to when needed.

Quoting: GuestAnd no.. the Linux market is not big enough to justify full renderer re-writes.

I totally understand that. I don't think I've got unrealistic expectations when it comes to Linux market, and luckily, as I never had too big expectations, so I'm not disappointed. I'm happy I can fulfill all my gaming needs on Linux nowadays with ease.

BTW, I'm not "ideological" enough not to consider buying Elder Scrolls 6, Fallout 4 or Witcher 3 from VP. Just sayin'.

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Quoting: Guest

Quoting: EikeThere's penalties for calling into binaries often (many optimizations cannot be done), but that's not my point.

It doesnt apply here. A CALL instruction is a CALL instruction. Compiling the game code with the wrapper code brings exactly NO speed benefit - we've tried it.

If you're a programmer, you know there's more to it. E.g. functions cannot be inlined in this case (which should be likely for thin wrappers). If it makes a practical difference in your case, I don't know. BTW, If you've got a wrapped Windows binary and a native Linux binary and can do the real comparision, I'd prefer to have the latter one published. ;)

Quoting: Guest

Quoting: EikeIf I want to run Windows binaries on my X86 system, there's a very suitable system to do so:
Microsoft® Windows®

Got it, you have a problem with using "Windows Code" on Linux. It's an entirely idealogical issue for you.. ie you're in the "Native or nothin" crowd. Enjoy "nothin".

I'd ask you to stay pertinent. We both know there's no such thing as "Windows code" in the end - it's all x86 machine code. (Which is why I didn't write that and it doesn't belong into quotation marks.) But there is such a thing as Windows binaries, and that's what I was talking about.
I don't care if you call it "idealogical". Windows is the best system to run Windows binaries. Would you disagree on that?
BTW, thanks for your "nice" wishes to enjoy nothing. I enjoy a lot of native Linux games, way more than I'd ever find time to play. My stack of shame is over a hundred hours large, and the whishlist probably over a thousand. Quite different from "nothing", that is.
Your work (I guess you are working for VP) is appreciated by many Linux gamers. I choose not to be your customer for the moment, though. It shouldn't hurt your feelings.

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Quoting: Guest...and it makes NO DIFFERENCE speed wise as to whether you execute x86 asm that MSVC compiled, or x86 asm that GCC/clang compiled. I have no idea why people cannot understand this.

Who was talking about speed?
I mean, except you?

There's penalties for calling into binaries often (many optimizations cannot be done), but that's not my point.
If I want to run Windows binaries on my X86 system, there's a very suitable system to do so:
Microsoft® Windows®

PS: I don't know why this is brought up every time. VP wrapping is different from what Feral does, the practical impact should be low if it's done well, and everbody decides on his/her own - hopefully based on facts, not on uninformed believes - if he/she wants to buy in this or not.

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Quoting: liamdaweDo you buy Feral games? They're not exactly that different, they have their own special layer as well. As do likely many ports.

As said many times, they are. They don't run Windows binaries, they are fully compiled for Linux. And wrapping source with source is actually a design pattern [External Link] tought to software engineers.

Quoting: liamdaweFacts are, Linux is not currently profitable enough for anyone to consider entirely rewriting a rendering engine to support OpenGL/Vulkan.

Well... yes.

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