I want Deus Ex: Human Revolution. It runs quite badly in Wine, we've got Mankind Divided, and it's already ported on Mac.
[Edit] lol posted at the same time :p

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Quoting: Guest

Quoting: tuubi

Quoting: Guest

Quoting: Whitewolfe80Yeah but Carmack is not exactly Linux friendly since he has gone on record to say releasing quake 3 on linux was a giant waste of resources

Quoting: omer666So that's not what one would call "a giant waste of ressources" even for a troll like Carmack

I am becoming more and more convinced that Linux is a cult, where if you mention any flaws, you get attacked. Jeeze.

Says the man who attacks any negative comment against a developer or porter, deserved or not.

We have no way of policing the actions and words of everyone who chooses to use Linux, and we're often very publicly in disagreement, and those facts alone prove we're nothing like a cult.

Hmm...hmm....hmmmm.....in this particular case, calling Carmack a troll was probably initiating things a bit. He did (and does) have a fair bit of experience and reasoning to backup his claims, and we should probably discourage calling that being a "troll".

Ok, jaycee may say comments that others find inflammatory (--edit: to be clear, I'm on his side in this case; the wording could have been more political, but this isn't international politics and the point is valid), but he also makes some very valid points about the state of things, whether we like it or not.

So can we all just try to keep calm, and talk about the pros and cons of opengl, how tripwire could have handled things better, and how gaming on a GNU/Linux system can be improved?

OK, beginning a flame-war was not my first intention, but now that it's here let's try to see what we can understand from it.

I didn't call Carmack a troll based on this particular story about Linux, but rather based on his general behavior. Which doesn't mean he's not a great developer - of this I am damn sure. But his views outside of the technical aspect of gaming can sometimes be biased. See for example how his former teammates see him. [External Link] That's where I was calling him a troll, which in fact I didn't think was insulting. John, if you read me, I'm terribly sorry if I hurt you.

Jokes aside, I'm really not a sectarian or whatever. That's what's funny about the internet, you drop two words in there and they do your psychoanalysis with it. :huh:

So to be clear: I'm not calling people names because they don't like Linux, in fact most of my friends don't. If you felt bad about this jaycee, I apologize. And if you can check your facts next time, it will be even better. I don't want to be rude to anyone.

[Edit] So after seeing the reactions in there, I decided to have a look at what's up with the word "troll". It seems that some people take it as a harsh word, while some others don't. Again, I am sorry if I overlooked something here.

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Quoting: Whitewolfe80Yeah but Carmack is not exactly Linux friendly since he has gone on record to say releasing quake 3 on linux was a giant waste of resources

I don't think he actually said that, because 1) Quake 3 was ported by a single guy, TTimo aka Timothy Besset, and 2) Quake 3 was also officially ported to the Macintosh twice, first to Mac OS 9, and then to Mac OS X. The expertise gone into the Linux port certainly helped OMNI Group (responsible for the OS X port).

So that's not what one would call "a giant waste of ressources" even for a troll like Carmack. In fact he even said they could get a Linux build up and running in a week or two, it is official support which is harder to set up. The fact is that Zenimax is against "unofficial binaries", and that's what Linux versions of most id games were: unofficial and unsupported.

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Quoting: johndoe

Quoting: GuestWho cares about "before that" ? No, MS did not pay Carmack to say D3D is better. It simply is for many reasons... no extension hell, rigorous testing standards, support for proper multithreading...

GL has simply not kept up to speed. Ask any developer who has used GL seriously and they will tell you that. Pretty much everything Rich Geldreich has said on the subject, for example.

Who cares? - me for example.
MS did not pay Carmack - I did not say that.
No extension hell... - I already said that OpenGL is more complex.

Before Bethesda took id Software all their games where available for Linux native.
Nowadays DOOM/RAGE developers are not able to deliver a linux installer anymore.
What do you think about this? - maybe you know more than me?

At the time Rage was released, John Carmack simply declared Linux "didn't pay the bills", and thus announced it would never get ported on Linux. Several months after this he left id, Linux support for Quake Live was abandoned, TTimo left too, and now id is just a Bethesda subsidiary which tries to emulate its own community's success (see Brutal Doom...) Now Quake Champions has been announced and it's nothing else than a poor Quake skin for Overwatch. I'm not even sure they'll be able to capture Quake's unique physics engine, and well, I don't really care, as I won't get to play that ludicrous attempt at making easy money since it's staying clear of my OS.

There was a time, id was an innovative company, the FPS leader for a little more than ten years. The Rage flop and Zenimax buyout just destroyed this company.

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Quoting: Shmerlonce they'll also catch up in hardware (Vega 2 and Navi)

That is, if they do. We should not speculate and only base our opinion on real stuff. AMD's record as far as power consumption goes has only just got a lot better with Ryzen CPUs, which doesn't mean they'll be able to get better results on the GPU side. The only thing we've got at the moment is hope.

Concerning Wine compatibility with DirectX 12, I think it's a good thing they've got it sorted as soon as possible. I don't think it will slow DirectX 11 implementation that much, and who knows, DX12 could really be successful sometime in the future. If Wine isn't lagging behind, that's one more argument in favour of Linux.

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Quoting: Shmerl

Quoting: LeopardFor achieving that ; AMD needs better watt per performance which i don't think it will happen any time in five years.

I expect it to happen in 2019, with release of 7nm GPUs. But we'll have to wait and see of course.

That's a problem in itself. Had they been able to release GPUs with a better power consumption this very year, I would have switched to AMD right away. But knowing nothing's going to happen this year, I'll just stick to my GTX 1050Ti for another year or two.

Oh and there is the rather poor Vulkan optimization at the time, I hope they'll get it sorted, too. But I'd say this is not as urgent as getting the hardware right.

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I just don't trust those guys...

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Quoting: Shmerl

Quoting: liamdaweNone of the press slides I was sent even hinted at a refresh of Vega.

Yep, and that's a concern.

I thought they were rather supposed to unveil Navi sometime soon... aren't they?

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I hope they know what they are doing. If Linux comes with Solo campaign, well, it's not that bad after all.

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Quoting: pete910

Quoting: Whitewolfe80

Quoting: pete910

Quoting: omer666Are you having black trees in-game? I just bought it and it's annoying me a great deal, I think it's going to be a refund.

Welcome to the supposed perfect NV drivers :P

No not perfect just 1 million times better than the official AMD ones.

Stop being silly and trolling!

You come across as a idiot making ridiculous statements like that.

I believe his statement was about AMDGPU-PRO, not open source AMDGPU. Nevertheless, AMDGPU-PRO is far better than Catalyst drivers have ever been. I am really looking forward to switching to AMD, and I really hope they will release a gaming-grade GPU that's energy efficient. When this day comes, going AMD will be a no-brainer for Linux users.

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