And I haven't even had the chance to try the demo yet ...

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I'm with @Salvatos here. I have a very low opinion of unions. I grew up in Alberta, a region well known for its hostility towards unions. My parents despised them because of how the union mistreated my father. My childhood best friend's father fell victim to a union that was blind to reality. The employer insisted they could not afford the union's demands. The union refused to compromise and the business shutdown rather than be run into bankruptcy. Everyone lost their jobs while the fat-cat union bosses moved on, not the least bit affected or concerned by what they had done.

Once unions become entrenched, they become the very thing they were formed to protect against. Some union headquarters look more opulent than a billionaire's mansion.

In many third world countries like the US

🤣

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@Mountain Man

Most companies don't treat their employees like crap. That would be counterproductive. I can honestly say that throughout my career, I've worked for around half-a-dozen employers, only one of which treated me like crap

Similar experience. I've had two really bad employers. Interestingly, both of them were large corporations. Neither of them were unionized.

For the most part, I've worked mostly for small businesses. No unions and they usually treat their staff like human beings. You interact directly with the owners every day.

@Mountain Man

if you're competent and reliable, you'll be well compensated for your work

With one employer, this was not my spouse's experience. They continued to exploit, disrespect and bully her until she finally had enough and quit. She was their most competent employee but not her boss' favorite because she didn't kiss up. Also a non-unionized corporation. Sensing a pattern?

In my opinion, the corporate business structure dehumanizes the workplace. Doesn't seem to matter if it is public, private or franchise. Large unions have the same effect. The bureaucratic tendency to see employees as machine parts instead of human beings is a big part of the problem. The term, "human resources", says it all.

Our best employment experiences have always been with small, privately-owned businesses. The absolute best have been self-employment.

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This would be useless to offline gamers such as myself.

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@melkemind

I admit that the online tools are convenient and cool, but I just can't bring myself to trust an outside source with my IP. Would love to see the GIMP devs make some of those basic functions just as easy and convenient!

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I love GIMP -- every version they've released. I even installed the Windows version on my PC at work.

When Mint stopped installing it by default, I added it to my list of apps that need to be manually installed (and removed/ignored Mint's substitute).

I don't get the dislike either. GIMP is a very powerful tool and it's open source!

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@marcus

Nothing you have presented here materially alters what I have stated. Feel free to keep parsing through company user agreements all you want. It is clear that you are unable to comprehend what I have been trying to explain and, frankly, I am not interested in clarifying my thoughts any further for you.

As you said, in the end it doesn't matter as both you and I are going to manage our game files as we see fit. We can agree to disagree on the other details.

Cheers.

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@marcus
Now I find myself needing to be as particular as I have accused @CatKiller of being.

You can just take the game directory of any game that is not tied to Steam hard (i.e. uses it as DRM) and run it wherever you like.

This presupposes that the game has already been installed. I am well aware that a game without DRM can be run without the Steam client. I have done this myself. But to install that game in the first place requires the Steam client.

While you may be *able* to install the software with an offline installer if your license gets revoked (often that license is from the publisher and not actually from GOG or Steam) then you are using the software illegally.

To be clear to other readers, I am not advocating to do anything deemed illegal.

While I am not saying it is impossible, I have never heard of a publisher revoking someone's right to install and play a game for which they have purchased a license. Delisting a game or shutting down online servers -- yes -- but never revoking a license without the user having violated the license agreement. With physical media, they have no way to enforce or prevent it. I see little difference between physical media and offline installers.

I would be surprised if such a revocation would even be legal. I do not recall seeing such a clause in any license agreement I have read (and I read them all at least once). The publisher is as much bound by that agreement as the user. I am not a lawyer, however, just a businessman who has had to review a number of legal agreements.

But in all cases that is a receipt for a license which is *not* perpetual.

Nonsense. A legal agreement without a start and/or finish date is automatically deemed to be perpetual. In fact, a license agreement is in force for as long as the two parties deem it to be in force. So, yes, it can be seen to be "perpetual". Some legal agreements even include clauses of that nature. The receipt simply shows that the user has legally purchased the license.

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Well, @CatKiller, you've just demonstrated that my point, made in the quote you chose, stands. This is simply a matter of perspective. You seem to be so hung up on the meaning of the word "ownership" that you are unable to see beyond it.

As a result, you are missing the whole point of the matter. It is not the question of ownership as you define it. The actual point is that, with GOG (and Itch.io for that matter), the offline installers are independent of a software client. Regardless of DRM-free status of the game software, the Steam and Epic launchers add another layer of DRM to installing and playing the games. To my knowledge, it is not possible to install a game purchased from Steam or Epic without their respective launchers.

Piracy is not part of the question as @wytrabbit has already stipulated that ownership of a legal license (via a digital receipt) is an essential concern. This receipt, coupled with the offline installer, is, effectively, a perpetual right to install and play the game legally.

Is this perpetual right, by your definition, ownership? No. But, from the perspective of the licensee, "ownership" is not the software code and assets, it is the right to install and play the game whenever they want.

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I think that @CatKiller and @wytrabbit are arguing at cross-purposes here.

@CatKiller is correct in the interpretation that the user is purchasing a license to use the software (in this case, to play the game), not actual ownership of the software. This is the same no matter which digital game store (Epic, Steam, GOG, etc.) you purchase the license (or key, if you will) from. I suspect that the point @CatKiller is trying to make is that the customer is purchasing the license not the software itself.

However, I feel that @CatKiller is being technical and, IMO, is wilfully ignoring the point @wytrabbit is trying to make. I wonder, did @CatKiller read the article that @wytrabbit linked to? GOG's primary point was as follows:

GOG's big selling point that more people should shout about is that it sells games DRM-free. When you buy a game on GOG, you get access to an offline installer for it, which you can use to install and play your games even in the event a license for it ends. It essentially uncouples the license from the game and lets you have some actual ownership of the things you buy.

Even in the event a license for it ends ...
In essence, GOG is not only selling you a license but also a backup installer that is not dependent on the digital store to function, much like the physical CD/DVD we used to get when purchasing at a brick & mortar store. Just as Developer-X cannot prevent me from installing from a DRM-free CD/DVD, Developer-Y cannot prevent me from using a DRM-free offline installer for the same purpose. While, technically, this is not ownership of the software it is, effectively, a perpetual right to install and play the game.

In the end, @wytrabbit and @CatKiller are both right. You are just looking at the issue from different angles and arguing over semantics.

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