Quoting: Purple Library GuyWasn't tearing supposed to be a bad thing?

I'm in agreement, but some people want it for gaming/drawing tablet purposes for the lower latency. Personally I've been gaming on Wayland for almost 2 years and never really noticed any latency, and always played games on X11 with compositing on. I'm just curious to see it on Wayland.

Also, on Wayland, tearing only applies to fullscreen windows, and the protocol I believe supports setting/unsetting it per-window (some Wayland compositors support this as of very recently, Plasma has implemented this for Adaptive Sync in 6.1). On Plasma 6 though, right now it's all-or-nothing and it's controlled by a checkbox on the Display settings page. Or at least, my understand is that it was, but I haven't seen this workking yet! :wink:

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Has anyone been able to get tearing to work for fullscreen games/general applications? Not having much success, even with Adaptive Sync turned off too, but even on my two other displays without Freesync I'm not seeing any tearing with the option enabled in System Settings.

As far as I understand Xwayland and KWin now fully implement the tearing protocol, and Mesa 24 should have support for the protocol as well. Tried out `MESA_VK_WSI_PRESENT_MODE=immediate` as well for some DXVK games, but not having any luck. Same story with Gamescope using `--immediate-flips`.

Videos in the Steam Overlay when fullscreen have tearing but that's regardless of this setting and always in the same spot.

I'm not really interested in having in on practically, I'm just morbidly curious to see tearing on Wayland, either in games, fullscreen YouTube videos from a browser, or anywhere. :smile: Maybe there's a step I'm missing or something isn't quite ready to be enabled at the flick of a switch yet.

Although for what it's worth, I did try the "Enable Tearing" option on my Steam Deck with the same games to see if I could introduce some tearing, and still couldn't see it. Maybe my eyes just aren't too sharp :unsure:

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I gave up on Humble Choice a while ago. I was grandfathered in with the Classic Plan and eventually I had two months in a row where I already owned every game, so I gave up. Even since, all of the headliner games are games I already own or have already gifted.

I have a Steam Collection for games specifically gotten from Humble Monthly as it was known back then, and it has 363 games. I think I certainly got my money's worth at the time, but never regretted cancelling.

Not a great lineup again, maybe it's because I have 1,923 games in my library according to the Steam filtering dropdown but I feel like a lot of the games have not been as good as they used to be. Though back in the day at least, it was a good way to beef up your library if it was small!

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Quoting: Forgewe should really look into a competitor program to Epic's Free Money

I get where this comes from, but I disagree. Fighting exclusivity with exclusivity would make the PC gaming landscape worse. I don't just want games on Steam, I want zero paid third-party exclusivity (and that includes on consoles, hence why I don't buy from Sony).

I think Valve should stay out of the exclusivity game. Attract develoopers by having a good platform and showing that the Epic Free Money hurts in the long-term.

If Valve start buying exclusivity, they're no better than scumbags like Epic, Tomorrow Corporation (I say this with a Little Inferno profile pic, and an ex-fan of Tomorrow Corporation), and every other dev that buys into paid third-party exclusivity.

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Quoting: DerpFoxIs this version still compatible with X11

Of course, the Plasma X11 session is still receiving bugfixes too where possible. Just because the Plasma team are now able to recommend Wayland as the default, doesn't mean the X11 session is going anywhere.

Plasma runs on X11 and Wayland. They are two separate sessions; two separate packages. Existing installations using Plasma probably won't switch to Wayland, or if they do, then the distro did that and not the Plasma team, as there is still a Plasma 6 X11 session.

It's up to distros to choose what they make the default, and so far to my understanding, only Fedora and RHEL have plans to use Plasma Wayland as the default session, but I don't believe existing installations will be affected for either. If a distro makes Plasma Wayland the default, that should really mean for new installations only, when you select Plasma, the Plasma Wayland session will be selected as the default.

You are still free to install the Plasma X11 session though, and if compatibility is an issue, distros either won't default to Wayland, or will come out-of-the-box with Plasma X11 and Plasma Wayland.

So if you really have no interest in Wayland, and you find that your distribution has forced you to use Plasma Wayland, you should take that up with the distribution and not KDE, as KDE can only communicate that Plasma Wayland is now ready to be a default but they don't control what distributions actually do.

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I'm interested in this section specifically, which if I understand your article correctly, is a quote from Nintendo:

"to be clear, there is no lawful way to use Yuzu to play Nintendo Switch games, including because it must decrypt the games’ encryption".

Is referring to the firmware files you must supply to Yuzu (and Ryujinx afaik, another Switch emulator) in order to use it, or is there something else going on? My understanding was that a user should dump these from their Switch console, and that this is, at the very least, not illegal.

Someone a lot smarter than me could probably explain how much water this statement from Nintendo holds, and what Yuzu is doing wrong here.

I also wonder if Ryujinx is going to be subject to a similar lawsuit. Yuzu is more popular (and depending on who you ask, tragically so) so perhaps it caught the eye of Nintendo first, and Ryujinx right now is under some "security through obscurity". Unless there is something technical that Ryujinx is doing differently, if Nintendo's statement that there is "no lawful way" to use Yuzu does not carry over to Ryujinx.

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Quoting: whizseProbably missing the necessary Wayland libs in the steam-runtime container.

This sounds very likely. And in that case, I don't think even running wthout the Steam Linux Runtime could solve it (it's possible to do this by wrapping the launch command, but it is not a good idea) since I believe Proton is built against the same runtime. So therefore when Proton is being built it would lack the libraries, even if Valve did build with the Wayland flag.

Wine-tkg-git's Ubuntu CI builds don't have the Wayland libraries, and so they fail to build the Wayland backend ( Frogging-Family/wine-tkg-git/Wine Ubuntu CI#1920 [External Link] ). So I think what you said sounds very reasonable.

And probably if I had to guess, these libraries are missing because right now there isn't quite enough justification to build with the Wayland driver enabled. Not to dilute any of the fantastic work that has gone into making the driver as impressive as it is now (and getting it upstreamed in such a short timespan!) but it isn't complete yet, it's still a feature you have to go out of your way to enable to begin with too. Once it's more "default" I could see Valve at least allowing it behind a Proton environment variable if absolutely necessary ("PROTON_USE_WAYLAND=1" ? :grin:). Or maybe it would be something you have to disable, perhaps some games won't play nice with the Wayland driver for a while!

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Quoting: scaineI wish I had your knowledge of wine, ngl. I understood most of those words, but they aren't lining up a message I can take in.

Heh, a lot of it comes with just getting your hands dirty and a whole lot of time. I'm no Wine developer though! That is all way beyond me.

If there's anything I can explain better, let me know! Sometimes I'm too verbose. A lot of the information such as what registry keys to set etc came from the Wine 9.0 release notes [External Link] (it took me a while to figure out how to "unset" the "DISPLAY" environment variable though) and I wanted to try and collate as much as I could. That would also make it easier for others to correct any steps I did wrong.

I think the main thing I was able to find out (which might be wrong, and I'm more than happy to be corrected) pretty much boils down to:

• Valve aren't building Proton 9.0's Wine with Wayland enabled, as the Wayland backend is opt-in at the moment.


• There could be a few reasons for this. The Wayland driver still isn't ready for "prime time" in the context of gaming (there are still some issues in some games, Frogging-Family/wine-tkg-git#1110 (comment) [External Link] ), and also the Steam Overlay does not support Wayland (if you run newer native SDL2 games such as Factorio with "SDL_VIDEODRIVER=wayland %command%" in the launch options, the Steam Overlay will not work, ValveSoftware/steam-for-linux#8020 [External Link] ) and this could also have implications for controller support etc. So there is no reason to build their Wine 9.x fork with Wayland just yet. There could also be some more build dependencies, I don't know a whole lot about building Wine but I think the Arch folks had some concerns about this (GitLab: archlinux/packaging/packages/wine#11 (note) [External Link] ), and I have no idea how something like this might impact the build process for Valve Wine.


• Builds of Proton that use Wine 9.x with Wayland enabled (as in enabled at build time and also properly enabled in the prefix), are able to use the Wayland backend, but seemingly not within Steam for some reason.

Quoting: scaineI choose a version of Proton in Steam and click play. Very rarely, when I do this, the game doesn't quite run correctly, and I have to try a different version.

It's really a testament to how far we've come. A lot of work from so many talented people has brought us to this point. Anyone remember Wine Steam and the workarounds to get it to run, like --no-cef-sandbox? Not to mention the work done on the Mesa graphics drivers side to get games running as good as they do now.

I was a nay-sayer when I heard about Proton back in 2018, I actually thought it would kill Valve. I figured they'd lose immense amounts of money on this and we'd lose Steam, I was very doomsday about the whole thing. I'd been messing with Wine and didn't really acknowledge it as anything more than something to experiment with. At the time I had no idea about DXVK, esync, or anything else. I was still using vanilla Wine for my gaming experiments, and figured that's how Proton was going to be.

And then I tried Proton (I was shocked at how easy it was to enable and did not believe it would work), and after I did and every single game I tried worked flawlessly (at the time, and after I moved them off my NTFS drive), I got rid of my Windows partition and did a full all-in Arch install -- The same install I'm using right now actually! I did a full playthrough of Yakuza 0 and it was utterly magical.

I did eventually find some games that needed workarounds (Yakuza Kiwami iirc needed you to build Wine with a custom patch posted by CodeWeavers(?) on the Proton issue tracker), some games worked but weren't performant for a while (A Hat in Time benefitted immensely from D9VK, now part of DXVK) and some games didn't work until a few weeks ago (Catherine Classic now works with GE-Proton afaik, but I bought it at launch in early 2019), but even now with 1921 games according to the Steam library dropdown, I haven't had a case where a game didn't just work in a long time. I was delightfully proven wrong.

When Valve announced the Steam Deck, I saw some people with the same attitude I had back when Proton was announced. I think a lot of those people were proven wrong just like I was too!

There is rarely any need to tinker these days, so you normally don't have to do anything beyond what you described. I was just being nosy about whether I could try out the Wine Wayland driver with Proton 9.0 now that it uses Wine 9, not even really for practical purposes, just to see what kind of fires there were. :wink: Once Wine Wayland is all enabled by default, you should be able to just press "Play" and have your games running natively on Wayland and just take it for granted, just like how a lot of the time these days we take Proton for granted.

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If anyone is curious: It appears that Proton 9.0 is not built with the Wine Wayland backend enabled. When building Wine I believe you have to use the "--with-wayland" flag - See example in Wine-tkg build system's wine-tkg-git build.sh script [External Link] and this Arch Wine packaging issue [External Link] where they didn't enable Wayland support at first for the Wine package

Trying to run a prefix that has the "Graphics" regstry entry at "HKCU\\Software\\Wine\\Drivers" set to "x11,wayland" will work when running with my system Wine (and using "DISPLAY=") with the same prefix, but not with Proton 9.0 Wine.

Example commands using the same prefix but with Proton 9.0 versus System Wine 9.2:
- (Using Proton 9.0 Wine fails with "The graphics driver is missing. Check your build!") DISPLAY= WINEPREFIX="/path/to/steamapps/compatdata/<appid>/pfx" "/path/to/steamapps/common/Proton 9.0 (Beta)/files/bin/wine" regedit
- (Using system Wine 9.2 in place of Proton 9.0 Wine works as expected) DISPLAY= WINEPREFIX="/path/to/steamapps/compatdata/<appid>/pfx" wine regedit

This is not a huge deal for now, but something worth noting. :smile:

EDIT: Interestingly, using a build of Proton-tkg based on Wine Master, I can run the Wine Wayland backend with things like Winecfg and regedit, but when passing "DISPLAY= %command%" as a launch option, games cannot launch from Steam. The Proton log errors with "Application tried to create a window, but no driver could be loaded.", "Make sure that your X server is running and that $DISPLAY is set correctly." - So I guess using the Wine Wayland driver with Steam right now is a bust. Fwiw, using Wine-tkg based on Wine Master, games can launch (although it is not a great experience if you have a multi-monitor setup with only one or two scaled displays, but the others unscaled, and the Wayland driver has no fractional scaling support yet so applications look blurry unless you're using 100%/200%/etc scale).

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Another game for the "ignore" list :smile:

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