Quoting: Eike

Quoting: MohandevirWould have been happy to buy Legend of Grimrock II if it came out on Linux... If I remember right it was because of to few resources available. They have a mac build though... Someone to help porting it? Snif!

Anyone has made a list of game series'/developers having supported Linux and not doing it anymore?

Hish! Sadly not the only case. I was refering to the actual sale, though. At least, we have the whole Trine lineup to rejoice. :)

Edit: Would have liked to say "The whole Frozenbyte lineup" but they didn't release "Has Been Heroes" on Linux and are not planning to either (problem with the 2D engine).

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Would have been happy to buy Legend of Grimrock II if it came out on Linux... If I remember right it was because of too few resources available. They have a mac build though... Someone to help porting it? Snif!

Edit: Typo.

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In other news...

https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=RADV-Vega-December-Fixes [External Link]

Pitoiset strikes again! :)

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Quoting: Ketil

Quoting: MohandevirConsole pc should be targeted to console users and the typical console user doesn't care about upgradability that much. This Dell and Zotac nailed it but the price tag... Ouch! Way too expensive. This is why I have the feeling that Valve is in a much better position to offer a cheaper solution partnering with AMD and, if it is not enough, sell it under cost. Afterall they already got the games catalog to absord the loss. PC gaming, as a whole, would benefit from a successfull Steam Machine campaign.

The money from selling under cost has to come from somewhere. For consoles it comes from the pricier games. If valve did the same with steam machines, then I am afraid the price of all steam games would increase, which would be bad for everyone except Valve.

Totally. But let's say Valve sells 10 millions of Steam Machines in an unbelievably successfull campaign... On the 150 millions+ users on Steam, do you think it would have that great of an impact on game prices?

It must be a little more as of today, but last time I checked, Sony sold 25 millions units (25+ millions users) and Microsoft 15 millions (15+ millions users).

I don't know the answer, I'm just trying to get the picture... This said, Valve might not need to sell Steam machines at a loss. Zero profit would already be great if the idea is to really push the platform.

Anyway, it's a decision only Valve can make. Like I said, speculation.

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Quoting: etonbearsI was always unclear as to the exact audience for Steam boxes; small/value doesn't sit easily with powerful/upgradeable, and how many would spend £1000-£1500 on something that only really runs Steam Big Picture well...? I struggle to visualize a mass market.

This. Instead of buying a 1500$ console PC you can get similar performances with a laptop for the same price tag. On top of that, you still have the leisure of connecting your laptop to the TV with a relatively small footprint.

Console pc should be targeted to console users and the typical console user doesn't care about upgradability that much. This Dell and Zotac nailed it but the price tag... Ouch! Way too expensive. This is why I have the feeling that Valve is in a much better position to offer a cheaper solution partnering with AMD and, if it is not enough, sell it under cost. Afterall they already got the games catalog to absord the loss. PC gaming, as a whole, would benefit from a successfull Steam Machine campaign.

Edit: And with the XBox One X and PS4 Pro, Sony and Microsoft have created a new price tag in the console market where Valve might get an opportunity to be even more competitive.

But it's all just speculation. Time will tell.

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Quoting: etonbears

Quoting: Mohandevir

Quoting: etonbears

Quoting: MohandevirLooking at this:

https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=Gallium3D-NIR-Link-Opts [External Link]

Valve still cares and is still investing in Linux. They wouldn't bother with that otherwise.

Something will happen regarding this, I'm not going to put all my faith in that, but it smells like an AMD based Steam Machine or something similar is on the way... Maybe... Hopefully...

How I would like to see Valve release it's own Steam Machine (no third party involved) with only one or two hardware specs (like PS4 Slim and PS4 Pro) along with a complete SteamOS overhaul.

I would not completely rule out a Valve-produced device, but it would be against their general reasoning regarding the value to gaming of an open market of upgradeable hardware.

To produce something compelling at a similar price point ( c.f. XBox / PS4 ), Valve would likely have to follow a similar route, contracting AMD to produce semi-custom designs. They could yet do that; it depends on where the market pressures fall.

Valve support Linux because it is the leading platform amongst those that are unowned and uncontrolled. Valve have clearly helped make Linux a more viable platform for gamers, but I think it would be a mistake to assume this means they view Linux the same way evangelical Linux supporters do.

Edit 1: I don't know why, it didn't record my comment... So here it is:

True enough, but I started to think it possible when Atari announced an AMD based custom hardware that is compatible with x86 platform for the Ataribox.

Couldn't Valve follow the same path with a more powerfull offer?

Edit 2: Removed my initial comment that was in the middle of quote.

Valve absolutely could produce a box of their own - and it would probably be good - and they still may do so.

But their original gambit with SteamOS/Linux was around uniting the many companies involved in the PC games industry in a collaborative open ecosystem for the benefit of all; and to avoid Valve becoming roadkill to proprietary lock-in ( specifically the threat of Windows store ). For this to succeed, they must not appear to put themselves in a position of advantage or control while encouraging developers to write games/software for SteamOS/Linux, and hardware manufacturers to offer console-like upgradeable games-friendly PCs.

So they work mostly in the background to push things along, while trying to get the ecosystem robust. Clearly, they are having some success with the software side, due in no small part to the main game engines supporting Linux, but there doesn't appear to be much traction in the hardware side. I think it is difficult for PC manufacturers to come up with anything compelling using off-the-shelf parts. The Dell/Zotac machines are no more than interesting, are no better value than self-build, and can't easily be used for other purposes than Big-Picture gaming ( SteamOS really doesn't do anything else well ).

Valve risk damaging what hardware industry support they have if they build a Steam PC themselves ( arguably Steam Link already caused damage by removing streaming as a Steam hardware selling point ). But, if they get to the point where no company wants to partner with them on hardware, that is when they are most likely to produce a box of their own.

Really interresting. It all comes down to one hardware partner that is all you just described: Cyberpower Steam Machine. Not as small as Dell or Zotac but fully upgradeable with on the shelf parts and the Steam Machine offer is still available with up-to-date parts.

This said, Dell is still trying to sell it's nearly 2 years old Steam Machine and no upgrades seem to be planned and Zotac seems to have vanished from the radar.

Let's wait and see...

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Quoting: etonbears

Quoting: MohandevirLooking at this:

https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=Gallium3D-NIR-Link-Opts [External Link]

Valve still cares and is still investing in Linux. They wouldn't bother with that otherwise.

Something will happen regarding this, I'm not going to put all my faith in that, but it smells like an AMD based Steam Machine or something similar is on the way... Maybe... Hopefully...

How I would like to see Valve release it's own Steam Machine (no third party involved) with only one or two hardware specs (like PS4 Slim and PS4 Pro) along with a complete SteamOS overhaul.

I would not completely rule out a Valve-produced device, but it would be against their general reasoning regarding the value to gaming of an open market of upgradeable hardware.

To produce something compelling at a similar price point ( c.f. XBox / PS4 ), Valve would likely have to follow a similar route, contracting AMD to produce semi-custom designs. They could yet do that; it depends on where the market pressures fall.

Valve support Linux because it is the leading platform amongst those that are unowned and uncontrolled. Valve have clearly helped make Linux a more viable platform for gamers, but I think it would be a mistake to assume this means they view Linux the same way evangelical Linux supporters do.

Edit 1: I don't know why, it didn't record my comment... So here it is:

True enough, but I started to think it possible when Atari announced an AMD based custom hardware that is compatible with x86 platform for the Ataribox.

Couldn't Valve follow the same path with a more powerfull offer? The logic is "if you want a small footprint, buy a Steam Machine but if you want upgradbility, build a full fledged PC." Afterall, Alienware and Zotac were official Steam Machines and were lacking upgradability...

Edit 2: Removed my initial comment that was in the middle of quote.

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Quoting: liamdawe

Quoting: MohandevirLooking at this:

https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=Gallium3D-NIR-Link-Opts [External Link]

Valve still cares and is still investing in Linux. They wouldn't bother with that otherwise.

Something will happen regarding this, I'm not going to put all my faith in that, but it smells like an AMD based Steam Machine or something similar is on the way... Maybe... Hopefully...

How I would like to see Valve release it's own Steam Machine (no third party involved) with only one or two hardware specs (like PS4 Slim and PS4 Pro) along with a complete SteamOS overhaul.

Well, if they came out with an AMD-based Steam Machine, it could end up being a fair bit cheaper than an Intel model and still perform really well. It also gives them an advantage there, with the open drivers that they can help shape and control updates closer.

It doesn't sound too far-fetched either, considering all the Mesa work Valve has employed people to do. Although they previously mentioned a large part of that was to get VR in shape on Linux.

Steam VR... Yes.

Sony has it's own VR Headset to go along the PS4... Same for future Steam Machine?

Edit: Might not be their intention at all, but nobody else is in a better position than Valve to sell consoles under cost like Microsoft and Sony are doing.

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Looking at this:

https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=Gallium3D-NIR-Link-Opts [External Link]

Valve still cares and is still investing in Linux. They wouldn't bother with that otherwise.

Something will happen regarding this, I'm not going to put all my faith in that, but it smells like an AMD based Steam Machine or something similar is on the way... Maybe... Hopefully...

How I would like to see Valve release it's own Steam Machine (no third party involved) with only one or two hardware specs (like PS4 Slim and PS4 Pro) along with a complete SteamOS overhaul.

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Quoting: Tuxee

Quoting: mahagrI really hope it'll be Ryzen based, if it is, it'll be instant buy for me. If it's using older AMD, I see no point of getting the device...

What makes you think it's gonna be AMD64 architecture? More likely it will be ARM based.

Unless it changed, from the start they specified it will be a custom, amd based, PC games compatible device:

https://www.gamingonlinux.com/articles/atari-are-launching-a-new-gaming-system-the-ataribox-and-it-runs-linux.10418
https://venturebeat.com/2017/09/25/ataribox-runs-linux-on-amd-chip-and-will-cost-at-least-249/ [External Link]

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