Quoting: sub

Quoting: Mohandevir

Quoting: sub

Quoting: GuestI guess I should point out that Valve have never said anything they do is intended to lead to more native ports. Quite the opposite actually - they've officially said not to bother!

So just like Google never said that Stadia would encourage native desktop GNU/Linux game development and people kind of assumed it would happen, Valve have never said it either and it probably won't happen.

This was one concern long ago about the approach VP did, but at least they supported the title running under GNU/Linux. There's not even that here, and native development (and support) is being discouraged - the result of which is this news. I can't see it ending well for GNU/Linux desktop gaming.

It would make more sense to me to encourage devs/publisher to provide native builds and have Proton as a fallback.
Best would be to establish in-house know how and awareness for nativ ports. Doesn't happen this way.

Just think Microsoft comes up with a Direct3D 13, completely incompatible and there is no such working Proton channel.
No way they could pull off something reliably working within months.

Proton (and Steam Deck) will gain compatibility at a similar time frame than other consoles on the market. Consoles usually play catch up with PC, anyway.

But console builds ARE native builds.
They are fine in this picture.

All I wanted to highlight is, you're creating strong unhealthy dependencies on MS.

Yep, but what I mean, it's that the user that knows nothing about PC architecture that will buy the Steam Deck because of the hardware will not notice that distinction. On the surface, it's the same.

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Quoting: sub

Quoting: GuestI guess I should point out that Valve have never said anything they do is intended to lead to more native ports. Quite the opposite actually - they've officially said not to bother!

So just like Google never said that Stadia would encourage native desktop GNU/Linux game development and people kind of assumed it would happen, Valve have never said it either and it probably won't happen.

This was one concern long ago about the approach VP did, but at least they supported the title running under GNU/Linux. There's not even that here, and native development (and support) is being discouraged - the result of which is this news. I can't see it ending well for GNU/Linux desktop gaming.

It would make more sense to me to encourage devs/publisher to provide native builds and have Proton as a fallback.
Best would be to establish in-house know how and awareness for nativ ports. Doesn't happen this way.

Just think Microsoft comes up with a Direct3D 13, completely incompatible and there is no such working Proton channel.
No way they could pull off something reliably working within months.

Proton (and Steam Deck) will gain compatibility at a similar time frame than other consoles on the market. Consoles usually play catch up with PC, anyway.

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Quoting: sarmadIf the Steam Deck is successful eventually developers will start producing Linux builds themselves, as it'll be easier to select Linux as a build target in your game engine than to produce a Windows build and run it through wine and try to investigate issues while an extra layer is sitting between your code and the OS.
The problem right now isn't that producing a Linux build is hard, it's actually easier than using Wine (if you are using a game engine with Linux support that is); the problem is that developers aren't interested in targetting Linux in the first place.

Or they could just use Proton, which is open source, and create a Proton wraped version of their games, too.

There are multiple exemples of games running better with Proton than the native ports (even better than when run on Windows, in some other cases)... Mad Max, Rocket League, Witcher 2 are 3 such exemples that I personnally witnessed (Proton > Linux port).

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Quoting: Whitewolfe80

Quoting: MohandevirI've always had some special attachment to Feral, being the most active porting house to bring use many awesome titles, but things have changed... Unfortunately. I whish them the best of luck.

As for Proton, it's probably the cheapest solution that Valve could come up with that will please developers and lure them to SteamOS (mark my words, I didn't say Linux desktop).

Imo, Valve's Linux gaming strategy was never targeted at desktop usage. The desktop war as been lost a long time ago. Not much moved or will move that needle. The Steam Deck is becoming the corner stone of Valve's strategy and Proton is the way forward, for them, like it or not. It's not targeted at techy savy Linux (or not) users, it's targeted at those that just want to turn on the thing, sit back on the couch and play. It might end up helping Linux desktop, but it's going to be a side effect. I think that what Valve is targeting at, is a Windows computer besides a SteamOS Steam Deck.

Seriously I can deal with that even if it's not my first choice scenario. Thanks to Feral for all it did for us and thanks to Valve for creating the opportunity. It's been a fabulous ride so far... And, for me, away from Windows. Personnallly, on this point, it's "mission accomplished".

Or they could go on making a killing by porting to switch since it runs linux and contracts are easier to get

You mean Feral? I hope so and wish them well... Personnally I have no Switch to benefit from that.:wink:

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I've always had some special attachment to Feral, being the most active porting house to bring use many awesome titles, but things have changed... Unfortunately. I whish them the best of luck.

As for Proton, it's probably the cheapest solution that Valve could come up with that will please developers and lure them to SteamOS (mark my words, I didn't say Linux desktop).

Imo, Valve's Linux gaming strategy was never targeted at desktop usage. The desktop war has been lost a long time ago. Not much moved or will move that needle. The Steam Deck is becoming the corner stone of Valve's strategy and Proton is the way forward, for them, like it or not. It's not targeted at techy savy Linux (or not) users, it's targeted at those that just want to turn on the thing, sit back on the couch and play. It might end up helping Linux desktop, but it's going to be a side effect. I think that what Valve is targeting at, is a Windows computer besides a SteamOS Steam Deck.

Seriously I can deal with that even if it's not my first choice scenario. Thanks to Feral for all it did for us and thanks to Valve for creating the opportunity. It's been a fabulous ride so far... And, for me, away from Windows. Personnallly, on this point, it's "mission accomplished".

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Quoting: Nanobang

Quoting: Purple Library Guy

Quoting: Mohandevir

Go 1v1 against another player (or a CPU) in a fighting mode. With cars. I dunno either, I came up with it while in the shower.

This one is pretty hilarious and sounds really spontaneous! :grin:

Outside the digital realm, there was a classic tabletop tactical game called "Car Wars" which eventually got a roleplaying game version. Just saying, there's always been an appeal to fighting cars. Taps into primal urges to machine-gun that fink tailgating you on the freeway.

OMG --- Steve Jackson Games --- Oh shit! Metagaming! Games that came in plastic bags! Ogre, GEV, Melee, Wizard, Chitin I, One World ... Jeez I miss my California childhood. :(

Making me remember... Played a lot of Death Track, "couple of years ago", on a 386... :happy:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deathtrack [External Link]

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Quoting: Lofty

Quoting: Alm888And I'm sure some portable gadgets will follow (be it "Surface Go", "Xbox on Wheels" or whatever).

Round two! Fight!!!

i mentioned this recently in the deck threads and got a lukewarm reaction. But i think your right, if the deck is popular other larger tech giants will follow.

In fact, what I said, in that thread, it's that Microsoft could launch a handheld. It's probably the only company in a position to offer a pricing range that matches Valve's Steam Deck (30% cut on Xbox games?). But Microsoft is Xbox centric, when it comes to gaming, so i'm quite sure that it would be a lockdown Xbox handheld that will serve to promote Xbox Gamepass and XCloud. My 2 cents.

Edit: As for Steam being integrated to the Windows store, they have no choice but to aknowledge Steam's domination and deal with it. I don't think it would lead Microsoft to supply an hardware platform to the likes of Steam.

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Quoting: Eike

Quoting: MohandevirTalking about games...

https://www.pcgamer.com/valve-says-it-hasnt-found-a-game-steam-deck-cant-handle/ [External Link]

Should we take for granted that these tests have been done on SteamOS 3.0?

If so, what major breakthrough have they been able to achieve, with Proton, that they didn't share with us, yet? If not, what a major let down!

They're only talking about performance, not compatibility.
I bet this has been done on Windows.

That's what I'm affraid of... They will sell the thing with SteamOS 3.0 pre-installed and then testing the hardware with Windows? Think about the potential customer that know nothing about OS installation and who doesn't have any clue that the tests were done with another OS... :sick:

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Quoting: CatKiller

Quoting: fleskI find it very unlikely that Valve, a US company with a few hundred employees, just happens to have developers in each of the 27 EU member states and the UK.

We know they've got developers in the UK and we know they've got developers in Germany (read it somewhere recently, but can't remember where, so no citation. Apologies) so then it's just getting a courier to deliver them. No customs hassle taking them to anywhere in the EU (that being one of the purposes of the EU), but there could well be going outside of the EU.

Plus, it doesn't sound practical or cost saving to ship a few thousand units in bulk to a person in each of those countries, only for them to re-package and mail out individual units using local post services.

I was being somewhat facetious referring to them as "postmen." But, no, it's not particularly efficient. To get efficient they'd need a whole bunch of logistics infrastructure that they don't have, but the likes of Nintendo, Sony, Samsung, and whoever, do. Or hire out to a company that does have that kind of logistics coverage and that can get products in shops.

Imo, the pre-orders was just a means to "test the waters". Now that they know there is a lot of interest, they should gear up for mass production accordingly. That's what I would do, at least.

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Talking about games...

https://www.pcgamer.com/valve-says-it-hasnt-found-a-game-steam-deck-cant-handle/ [External Link]

Should we take for granted that these tests have been done on SteamOS 3.0?

If so, what major breakthrough have they been able to achieve, with Proton, that they didn't share with us, yet? If not, what a major let down!

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