Quoting: Beamboom

Quoting: MohandevirI still feel the exact opposite, even though I tried the Xbox one, PS4 and Nvidia Shield controllers. I always come back to my Steam Controller like old comfy slippers, even if I can admit that it's not perfect for all tasks, just like any controller, in fact.

Ah - so the Steam controller was your first controller? Then that may be the whole explanation right there. Habits are hard to get rid, so the first one get accustomed to usually sticks. :)

I mean, I really do DIG Valve's controller, love the looks, love the originality, love the build quality. But... Yeah. :(

Not even that. Let me think... My first one is the Coleco Intellivision... Atari 2600... NES... SNES... N64... Sega Mastersystem... Sega Genesis... original Playstation & Xbox... Then I jumped to Twin sticks on PC with a couple of Logitechs after that (even the one that had a recoiling usb cable). Thing is, the right stick always felt ineffective and incomplete, to me. I never could get used to it. Sorry to debunk your theory...

Steam Controller FTW! :tongue: :grin:

Quoting: dubigrasuI bought and used so many because I was never truly satisfied with them, like I was searching for something. And that thing turned out to be the Steam Controller, from the moment I got it in my hands I no longer had any use for the rest of them.

This! Exactly this! I even dropped controllers altogether for a while in favor of K+M. The Steam Controller is the reason I gave them a new shot.

Imo, The only thing that's missing, in the Steam controller, is true Android TV support, outside of the Steam Link app (Nvidia Shield). The default configuration is K+M which is quite limited.

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Quoting: randylThe contract between Valve and the publishers/developers may have clauses or stipulations which give an "MFN" status and that has to be determined during the hearing.

Aaaah! MFN is a term used to qualify a situation... They want to convince the court that some part of Valve's contract acts like a MFN. Is that so?

Edit: For the record... Don't know why I haven't tought about that in the first place:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Most_favoured_nation [External Link]

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Quoting: Al3sPractice makes perfect.

Quite the definition of a Souls like game, if I'm not wrong? :grin:

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Quoting: Linuxwarper

Quoting: MohandevirTo me it's clear that Stadia is a good addition to my PC. I play on Stadia, games that I can't play on my PC (compatibility issues).

Sure, but whether it's a good addition for PC platform in regards to free choice is the real question. I understand and relate well to the compatibility issues but I think with Stadia we are trading alot for the convenience of having games be playable now, especially considering that Proton exists. Money we pay to Valve is likely going to be funded into Linux improvements with clear intent. Money you give to Google will go largely to Google's own interests, and if we somehow benefit from Stadia ecosystem it's not because they intended to but because they are using Vulkan or other crossplatform software.

Quoting: MohandevirPersonnally being able to play a game locally or in the cloud on a PS4 or Xbox has absolutely no meaning.

I mentioned that you can play through streaming or locally to make the point that consoles makers are interested, at least for now, to give gamers choice to play the way they like. Stadia's slogan is "One place for all ways we play", yet it's only streaming platform. I am not complaining they should, just highlighting they are giving you one choice that's all. And that choice becomes a big negative when and if Google pays for exclusivity for games.

Quoting: MohandevirYour are a prisoner of Sony and Microsoft's digital services. Same way you are a prisoner of Google when you use Stadia. What you are calling out is a situation that always existed and that Stadia didn't create, but it's worse because of Google? Or because they are late to the party? I still fail to see your point. In fact, I feel that I have more choices then ever before and, at least, Stadia runs on Debian Linux.

Indeed, Stadia and Google's approach is comparable to consoles and their makers. But the issue is that Stadia could direct game developent towards streaming only on PC and possibly hurt gaming on Linux's growth. I'd say what you feel is just a feeling. Google is giving you the choice to play by streaming, but they haven't offered you the choice to play same games natively. They haven't even put in the bare minimum which would be encouraging devs to port their Stadia games to Linux too. Stadia running on Debian is no guarantee that it will mean great things for desktop Linux. Despite many ROMs being based on AOSP, and Android being based on Linux kernel, a mobile FOSS os has not gotten good adoption and it's not easy to free yourself of Google's services and products.

Quoting: MohandevirYou are not talking about me for sure, but I must admit that Google has it's Zealots (which I'm absolutely not), just like Apple, Xbox, Playstation and even Linux users, but it's not something that's about to change. People tend to like to be identified to a banner and think their solution is better than the other because... Why in fact? ...Because they chose it, I guess.

Honestly it seems to me that there are zealots and aside them a good portion of people who are apathetic to zealots rhetoric. I've not seen a post raising the question that Google's push for streaming can be bad for others prefered playstyle. Today Google has barely engaged in exclusivity deals, but imagine if they did as much as Epic, then PC platform would a cesspool of exclusivity. Then they would "force" people to play games through streaming. Judgment will not be available PC so it seems like Google may be ramping up their exclusivity game. Similar happened with Stadia pushing out Geforce Now support.

Quoting: MohandevirI'm not even trying to convince anybody to use Stadia. Just giving my personnal experience with the service, which I find pretty polished and well tought out. Lots of small details that makes it natural to use and well integrated in the Google ecosystem (and it's not even officially out on Android TV). I'm just stating the facts that I witnessed. Is it the best? I don't know. Make your own opinion. All I can say it's the one I prefer, compared to GeForce Now, which I tried and replaced with the Steam Link app... Not going to tell you that you must think like me, but using a Windows host for my Steam games is beyond my strength. I feel dirty when doing that, even when I have complaints about Protondb or Linux in general. :wink:

I haven't used it but from what I've gleaned Stadia seems like the best streaming service option. I just see many reasons not to use Google product. I have no issue with anyone using Stadia, but I will always be honest about it and I think though we gain games in the short term, in long run we may be aiding to worsening of PC platform as a whole. Not a PC platform with alot choice (like Valve gives with Remote Play, native local release and Proton) but one where streaming is largely only choice. And streaming is the ultimate DRM and supports Games as a service model even better.

TLDR: I wish Stadia supporters stopped pretending they are a family with Google and remember that Google buying exclusive rights to games affects fellow gamers. It's not "One place for all ways we play", with Judgment exclusivity it has become "One way for us to play". Streaming, don't like it? Sucks for you. Another prison for you. Also I like to think we who game on Linux are more conscious of DRM and other foul practices and would stand firm against bad practices. We may not experience that Judgment is exclusive to Stadia, because the only choice we have is play it on Stadia or not at all (assuming Judgment was a problem game in regards to compatibility), but Windows PC users will notice the lack of the choice to play the game locally.

More on topic: I wouldn't worry about Stadia just because they are foregoing first party games. If the service stays top quality and Google stays on it, it will push forward. It won't happen anytime soon though, maybe in two to four years?

I understand and respect your point of view even if I don't agree. I really doubt that cloud gaming will have any impact (good or bad) on the PC. As long as people will ask for local play, it will continue to exist. I for one will never drop it entirely... Time will tell, I guess.

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Even if it's not my kind of game... Thanks Feral! Happy to hear from you!

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Quoting: wytrabbit

Quoting: BeamboomThere's just something about a physical stick that can't be replaced with a touchpad.

My thoughts as well. The touchpad can be nice for a casual game, but trying to move or turn with it quickly and accurately in an intense boss fight (say for example Dark Souls 3, or Hellpoint) is impossible.

True enough, as much as playing a PC shooter with a stick is a subpar experience. I played all my shooters with the Steam Controller trackpad and Gyro. Best experience ever. The closest to K+M you can get.

Darksouls games are edge cases though. For other 3rd person games, it doesn't really matter (Witcher 3, Shadow of Mordor, Mad Max, Tomb Raider, etc...). It comes to personnal preferences... I often switch from stick to trackpad, depending on my mood at that moment. :smile:

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Funny... Thinking about it... 5 "random" (Yeah right!) gamers that seem to be unable to correctly read a EULA learned of the MFN which is closed behind an NDA between developpers and Valve... Who broke the NDA then? Will the plantiffs be able to produce the proof of the MFN without compromising the identity of the NDA leaker(s)? Because that could legally cost them a lot. Like it was said... Follow the money.

Did I get something wrong?

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Quoting: BeamboomI have to admit, however much I loved the look and idea of the Steam controller, I quite soon after returned to my Logitech controller again with the classic controller setup.

There's just something about a physical stick that can't be replaced with a touchpad.

It was great when there was a trackpad alternative... I still feel the exact opposite, even though I tried the Xbox one, PS4 and Nvidia Shield controllers. I always come back to my Steam Controller like old comfy slippers, even if I can admit that it's not perfect for all tasks, just like any controller, in fact.

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Quoting: Linuxwarper

Quoting: MohandevirJust curious... In what is it any different than buying a PS4, XBox or Nintendo Switch? Why should it be more damaging? Imo it's a Linux console in the cloud. It's not a PC. Maybe I'm wrong, but I don't see why...

Both consoles have local and streaming. If a third party game is exclusive to Stadia it means it's streaming exclusive. If a game is exclusive to a console, it's a hardware exclusive. The thing with consoles and Stadia is they are quite similar though. The times I've viewed Stadia sub I get a "we are a family let's stick together and nurture this plant" vibe. And people are busy with convincing others to use Stadia. How one could buy into such things when Google could or would buy exclusive rights to third party games, that would affect other gamers choice, is beyond me. Yes, it's great you enjoy Stadia but if Stadia has negative consequences for others, then maybe it's not so great.

Choice is important. You should be able to play the same game with Stadia just as I should be able to play it through GOG or Steam. Unfortunately Google has shown more signs of not wanting to give people choice than the opposite.

If Stadia Pro is not better compared to consoles. That it's a product here to help Google not gamers, then someone should make a wake up post on /r/Stadia and remind them of that.

To me it's clear that Stadia is a good addition to my PC. I play on Stadia, games that I can't play on my PC (compatibility issues). Personnally being able to play a game locally or in the cloud on a PS4 or Xbox has absolutely no meaning. Your are a prisoner of Sony and Microsoft's digital services. Same way you are a prisoner of Google when you use Stadia. What you are calling out is a situation that always existed and that Stadia didn't create, but it's worse because of Google? Or because they are late to the party? I still fail to see your point. In fact, I feel that I have more choices then ever before and, at least, Stadia runs on Debian Linux.

Quoting: LinuxwarperThe times I've viewed Stadia sub I get a "we are a family let's stick together and nurture this plant" vibe. And people are busy with convincing others to use Stadia.

You are not talking about me for sure, but I must admit that Google has it's Zealots (which I'm absolutely not), just like Apple, Xbox, Playstation and even Linux users, but it's not something that's about to change. People tend to like to be identified to a banner and think their solution is better than the other because... Why in fact? ...Because they chose it, I guess.

I'm not even trying to convince anybody to use Stadia. Just giving my personnal experience with the service, which I find pretty polished and well tought out. Lots of small details that makes it natural to use and well integrated in the Google ecosystem (and it's not even officially out on Android TV). I'm just stating the facts that I witnessed. Is it the best? I don't know. Make your own opinion. All I can say it's the one I prefer, compared to GeForce Now, which I tried and replaced with the Steam Link app... Not going to tell you that you must think like me, but using a Windows host for my Steam games is beyond my strength. I feel dirty when doing that, even when I have complaints about Protondb or Linux in general. :wink:

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Quoting: JuliusAnd the back-paddle buttons are probably the most useless part of the Steam controller anyways...

So true... In all games I turn them off because I keep unwillingly activating them... It's usefull for racing games (paddle shift), else, it's quite useless, for my part too.

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