Quoting: whizse

Quoting: elmapulvalve said they aim to make every game run on steam deck, but there are still 3000 open issues on proton github, some of then are 2 years old (the same age as proton, so they might be even older issues that existed on wine)

That's not a very good metric. Bug reports are per game, and people are encouraged to report games that work without issues too, so that list will grow and grow.

Most of the closed bugs are duplicate reports.

that is a good metric because i see the numbers a lot of times to see if they changed.
the number of bugs being closed isnt changing too fast, unlike the number of new bugs being reported.
sure, people can open a bug report to report that something is working fine, but even if we filter out those (white list request) there are still too many bugs.

and if there are many duplicate reports, then the tag duplicate would be full of entries, unless no one is looking at this.

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Quoting: CatKiller

Quoting: elmapulso let me get that straight...
they cant produce enough steam deck devices to cover the needs of developers who want to develop for then...
but they expect to produce enough devices to the people who want to buy then?
there are 50.000 games on steam, and considering some devs made more than 1 game, less than 50.000 developers/publishers, i can understand that big companies that need tons of developers to make/port their games are an priority, but how many devices is valve producing?

They don't charge developers for dev kits; they do charge customers for retail units, and they've essentially sold two years' supply already. If they cannibalise their retail units to send to devs, they're costing themselves $400 a pop and making their customers (who also give them money for games) unhappy. They had intended to have a second batch of dev kits available by this point, but there's a component shortage on at the moment, so they're giving some information so that devs can make do.

400 include cost of production (and i guess shipping?) i dont know if its subsidized as consoles are to make a profit on games sold.
i dont know, i just think valve investment is too small.

• Nintendo paid 1 billion to unity to support their platforms a few years ago


• google paid capcom 10 millions to port Resident Evil 7 and 8


• valve on the other hand seem to expect developers to support their platform for free, while they have an umproven track record on hardware compared to others


• we were praising valve for hiring 1~2 developers to write/improve an driver while modern games take up to 1500 developers to be produced and sometimes windows get drivers specific for an game


• valve said they aim to make every game run on steam deck, but there are still 3000 open issues on proton github, some of then are 2 years old (the same age as proton, so they might be even older issues that existed on wine)


• valve missed the critical window to relase it that is the end of the year, they will have to wait another year to sell as much as they could

its just seem that valve dont know how much money they need to invest to make this product reach it full potential, and they are orders of magnitude below what they need.
i hope this can sell at least as much as the first xbox, so we might have an second chance next gen, but at this rate microsoft will enter the portable pc market before steamOS can make any dent, and they will compensate any performance loss of windows with an better hardware.

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so let me get that straight...
they cant produce enough steam deck devices to cover the needs of developers who want to develop for then...
but they expect to produce enough devices to the people who want to buy then?
there are 50.000 games on steam, and considering some devs made more than 1 game, less than 50.000 developers/publishers, i can understand that big companies that need tons of developers to make/port their games are an priority, but how many devices is valve producing?

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so epic donate to SDL or to ryan specifically?

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Quoting: slembcke

write these three lines of code to make a window, and then 2000 more to clear it

Hrm, I'm kind of annoyed with the persistence of this mindset.:unsure: My entire Vk renderer is ~1200 sloc compared to my GL3 renderer at ~900 sloc. Yes, it's more complicated, and I would have been pretty lost if it was my first rodeo. It doesn't take thousands of lines of code to draw a triangle with Vulkan though, and I'm kind of annoyed that people keep saying so and discouraging others to even try it. :(

That said, there's a good 200-300 sloc of any Vk renderer that's just sort of "free" with GL. You don't have to carefully initialize a device to get sane defaults, and you need very little effort to get a framebuffer + sync. Khronos could make a reasonable library to simplify those parts of the API for 99% of the use cases I feel.

afaik the whole point of vulkan is that openGL was abstracting too much stuff, while on vulkan you have to understand what is happening behind the scenes, because those assumptions that the driver/compiler/library did for you, werent the best options in terms of performance.

if we gonna abstract everything again, we might as well just go back to openGL instead.

the same goes for dx12 against 11 and the previous ones.

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"This sounds like a really great project, and hopefully one game developers will appreciate."
one or some?
one developers?

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Quoting: tuubi

Quoting: elmapulshit i cant believe i forgot to press send im my previous comment, i only sent it today >.>

Check again. You already sent the same message two days ago. :)

thanks, lets pretend that never hapened...

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shit i cant believe i forgot to press send im my previous comment, i only sent it today >.>

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"attention economy".???

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Quoting: Solitary

Quoting: elmapul

Quoting: Solitary

Quoting: elmapulomg, they will miss the christmas! this is a HUGE deal, most of the sales happen in christmas!
source:
https://www.vgchartz.com/tools/hw_date.php [External Link]

i hope not many people cancel their pre order because they were planing to give it to someone else as christmas present, and cant anymore!

People who managed to get december date probably didn't buy it by accident and to cancel it afterwards. If they cancel it because of that then I say more and sooner for the rest of us down the line.

fair enough, i just think we cant afford to lose sales, its the do it or die moment for linux gaming.

on the other hand, the less people who nuke steamOS from it to install windows because an certain game didnt worked, the better.
i think they delayed because they realized proton was not ready for the prime time, it still need more games , hopefully they wont delay it again and this will have more positive side effects than negative.

I really wouldn't worry about cancelled orders, if those happen they won't make a dent. There is so much more people at the end of the queue. It shouldn't matter if this product is suppose to be even remotely successful. If few people canceling would be an issue then the whole Deck has bigger problems already. Once it's out and the reviews are favorable (as the teasers and generally reports from people who had the chance to try one) suggest, people will start ordering them more freely.

im using the console market as reference, i know its "an pc" but at the same time, it will be competing with the likes of switch for the consumers pocket.
in the console market, any big mistake that companies do, can kill the product if the companies dont act fast.
its a matter of set things in motion and keep acelerating fast.
an console who is smaller but growing faster may attract more developers than other who already have more sales depending on the difference of numbers.

i know a lot of things are different in that case, i just dont lik e the idea of having to wait another 5 years for valve to try again.

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