i think this situation is... ironic to say the least...
canonical bet that linux could become mainstream, spend a lot of money on it, then they failed.
they even tried to do an partnership with valve and got ambitious with their own display server, an phone, tablet, conversible concept...
and ultimately failed, but at least they were the entry point to many in the world of linux and as result, many people build know how on ubuntu wich helped then grow in the server space (cheap laborhood)

the desktop seemed ... abandoned, a few bug fixes here and there but no major new features.

then valve strike again, an big youtuber that reache the masses start talking about linux , and they're like:
hey we're listening to yourfeedback!
i'm not saying they werent before, but they were silent at best...
its almost like they realize that things may finally get into motion now, and they may miss the boat...
anyway, i'm not mad at then, its just that... it may be to later, steamOS is arch based and pop seems to be get the public they were negleting, so lets see what happens =p

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i just remembered that i saw somewhere (one youtube channel stadia related) that amazon luna only had 1 game that was not avaliable for stadia/linux, so stadia using linux dont explain why it was not sucessfull compared to others.

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Quoting: kuhpunkt

Quoting: scaine

Quoting: elmapulfor example, in my country, if i count air tv and cable tv, we had 100 animes broacasted in total across 3~5 decades, there are 10.000 animes on my anime list alone (not to mention its an incomplete list, it dont have the indie non official touhou animes for instance), crunchroll dont have everything, but at least it has 700 animes any given month.

This is a really good point, tbh, and re-enforces why monopolies are bad - if they control what content you watch, you're severely restricted as a focused client of that service. But while dealing with multiple streaming services feels bad, they're still actually really cheap compared to what we used to pay for scheduled television, and they allow a huge degree of control over what you watch.

My primary gripe is really just finding content sometimes. And a minor gripe about how different services look different. And handle end-of-show credits. And how quickly they stream the next episode before I can find the remote control to turn off auto-stream. So frustrating.

Okay, so a few gripes. Still better than a monopoly though.

In Germany there was Sky for soccer/football. Bundesliga and Champions League... all you needed in one small package if you wanted to watch every game.

Then they had to split up the rights, because it was claimed that competition is good for the customer. Then the rights went to Sky for the Saturday games, but the Friday games were on Eurosport. And some games were exclusive to DAZN/Amazon or whatever. Total clusterfuck and more expensive than before.

the law should have specified an non exclusivity deals.

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Quoting: scaineMy primary gripe is really just finding content sometimes. And a minor gripe about how different services look different. And handle end-of-show credits. And how quickly they stream the next episode before I can find the remote control to turn off auto-stream. So frustrating.

Okay, so a few gripes. Still better than a monopoly though.

i understand but that is why we have things like google tv being developed, the goal is to search for the content itself in an unified interface instead of relying on the interface of the streaming service.
that way you can list all the content and where its avaliable then auto launch the correct app for it.

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Quoting: scaine

Quoting: Whitewolfe80Don't know what you are all on about onlive is where it's at..... Oh wait it died just like all the gaming streaming sites will or it fragment just like streaming TV Netflix used to have everything now there are exclusives and you need multiple subscriptions to see everything

Yeah. On one hand, monopolies are definitely bad. On the other hand, I went from a £6.99 Netflix sub to:

Netflix family: £9.99
NowTV + Sports package: around £25 in total, per month
Disney: £7.99
Prime: £7.99

And of course, my cabled TV connection, which includes my 300mb internet and a landline I never use: £70

Like, yeah, monopolies are really, really bad (just look at Microsoft), but how much would Netflix have had to put up their prices, per month, before people complained? Because even taking out NowTV, if they'd DOUBLED their prices, it would still be cheaper for the consumer than dealing with Netflix+Disney+Prime.

That said, before streaming services existed, I paid Virgin for their "Everything" package and it was just over £100 a month, which included Sky Sport and Sky Movies, and was therefore much cheaper than all this multiple-streaming-service juggling!

And don't even get me started on my £16.99/month spotify family plan.

there is no such a thing as pay cheap get everything.
for example, in my country, if i count air tv and cable tv, we had 100 animes broacasted in total across 3~5 decades, there are 10.000 animes on my anime list alone (not to mention its an incomplete list, it dont have the indie non official touhou animes for instance), crunchroll dont have everything, but at least it has 700 animes any given month.
if you think USA is the only country who make movies, series and cartoons, then sure, cable tv had everything, but last time i checked shows like round6 were not made by usa.
(not to mention things like censorship in animes that aired on cable, those still exist on streaming services but it isnt as bad as it was in the past thanks to piracy that helped keeps thing in check or at least inform the public)

one thing that people forgot is that the more money we put into the entertainment industry, the more shows they are capable of doing with an better techinical quality.
that is, as long as we dont help creating monopolies either in distribution or production.
an netflix monopoly would never be good, even if they promissed it would be cheaper and keep their promisses, they would be the ones deciding what shows get produced or not, what shows get an second seasson or not.

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i'm surprised that no one said that but...
i think what killed stadia was youtube, or better saying, youtubers and the gaming media in general.

they straight up LIED about it, no matter how good the service is, if no one knows about it and most people are miss informed on purpose about it.

if you dont watch the google presentation/ads on stadia, you just read the sum ups of it elsewhere, you will be lead to believe that you have to pay for the games AND subscribe to the service to be able to play anything, and if they discontinue the service you lose not only the games but any progress you made on then, and the worst part: you will believe that the input lag make the games unplayable.

stadia had the best input lag of all streaming options, in some cases even better than local gaming with xbox one x, but no one knew about it.

it helps nothing that google promissed a lot of features but failed to comunicate they wouldnt be avaliable day 1.

stadia was attacked by all directions.

people who were afraid of cloud gaming because any cloud exclusive may disappear if the service is shutdown, we cant preserve old games nor apply decensor patches nor pirate anything, and if they discontinue the service we might loss the games we purchased, people said screw that! and didnt want to support it, at least not on stadia, but those same people ignored that microsoft is willing to make cloud exclusive games and they are fine on cloud as long as its only used for testing or streaming games that you already "Own".

xbox fanboys and microsoft fanboys were attacking stadia, playstation fanboys, nintendo fanboys, even dreamcast fanboys, either because they were afraid of losing local gaming, or didnt wanted an new competition for their platform, or just wanted to do clickbait videos and trash talking stadia was the next big thing, the next meme to make to get views.

it helps nothing that google didnt reacted, and he could.
the first year stadia received 120 games as promissed, but only 100 were promissed for the second year, he should have improved the rate of new games instead.

google never bothered to upgrade the servers when the new generation came.

google didnt clear what will happen if they discontinue the servers (other than you being able to download your save files)

and google took to long to implement things like click to play, hell, it didnt take too much effort to market stadia, just show some ads of an game, and make some of the people who see those ads on youtube realzie they are INTERACTIVE ads (much like a lot of simple games make interactive ads, but for triple A games)
if people are afraid of input lag, show to then that they can play it, then when they see for thenselves that its an acceptable experience, you show an logo saying : powered by stadia.
give people a free trial or even better, give then an game for free.
give then the assurance that they will be able to download the game on steam or something like that if google discontinue the service, but imply an minimum number of years were you can be sure it wont happen.
google can even reduce the reach of channels who spread fake news, but i dont think it would be an good idea especially if its leaked that they are doing it, people will acuse then of doing the opposite.

i think google never expected the reception to be that bad, the initial reach to be that bad, and then stake holders pressured then to kill the service, wich ironically is the reason why they are in this situation to begin with, they killed too many services.
hell, i was one of the few people who cared about googleplus, and how the hell they cant manage the security of an text based service, they cant pay for a few people to send text to host on their servers and show to other people who want to read then, but they can stream triple A games?
sure earning 30% of an 60 dollars sale make then much more money than trying to run ads on a failing social network and earning fractions of cents per user, but something isnt adding up imho.

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Quoting: gabberI (and I guess many others) was hoping Stadia would be the push for Linux Gaming on the desktop, because in the backend they said to run Linux (Do we know if this is 100% the case?). Now we have games on Stadia with no Linux support outside of Stadia. Bummer.

stadia runs on linux, if stadia was good enough to act as an replacement for local gaming for most people, then they would consider using only it, and sundely an chromebook or linux desktop would seem like an viable option.
when you computer break or you going to buy an new one, you can pay for the most expensive ones to game on it, or just buy an cheaper computer and stream all the way.

if more people started using linux as an result of it, then some companies would start to offer the stadia offline option, aka, native linux gaming.

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Quoting: Glog78

Quoting: denyasis

Quoting: Glog78Since i use arch on my machine , there is no real default "net"

Really? I'm not familiar with arch, I've used the wiki a ton... it's So helpful!!

But I'd be really surprised if you have to backup all your custom confs in /etc because pacman overwrites them on every update. Or that a DE doesn't use PolKit (or equivalent) without some sort of base default rules package.

I feel it would be a little weird to have no system safe guards, even coming from upstream.

*I could be totally wrong about Arch and if so, I'd gladly share a frosty beverage of your choice if you could enlighten me on the rules.d local override process for Polkit. Trying to fix an issue with Steam and the network.

** Oh, I missed that part in your post. If you count OpenSuse as "mainstream". It has full system snapshot by default, courtesy of BTRFS. Reboot, pick the old snapshot in GRUB and good to go! (Ok... you need a terminal command to finish the rollback, you know, altering the file system and all).

There are safe guards (like pacman usually by default don't overwrite configs but put them next to the existing file) Which is good and bad *lol* ... imagine a config not working because of a missing parameter after a reboot because you didn't checked for the new config template (hadn't had this since years but i had this a few times) *ups* << usually they are not leaving the system in an "unusable" state but i would probably define unusable different than a "newbie" :) -> imagine dns not working anymore after an systemd update or since i boot directly from efi into the kernel i once used an "outdated" way to write the root partition into efi ... lets say thanks god i always have a "normal" bootloader ready ...

With default i mean there is no default net which you can be sure to be find on every arch installation. I for example can boot my X even without polkit (init 2 -> startx /usr/bin/xterm ;) ). There are however packages with files under /usr/share/polkit-1/rules.d and /usr/share/polkit-1/actions. There is no special rule for steam (if that helps) The last issue i had with steam and network i fixed by setting up a local dns proxy and re-enabling ipv6 -> had a ipv4 only config before.

OpenSuse i would call as mainstream but when was the last time someone adviced OpenSuse somewhere for a beginner? Even during 7 pages of this discussion you and me are probably the only two who talk about OpenSuse / Suse so far. Being able to do so on the terminal is a step forward. But i guess we are far from "newbie" friendly even at this point.

i saw something even worse, not being able to login because some file was encoded with the wrong encoding.
(eg: it was UTF 8 when it should be UTF16 or the opposite)
imagine reading an file searching for errors in the code of the config file, only to realize... there is NONE, but you know that this is the file wich is causing problem...
then you change the encoding and puff! it work again!
an newbie would NEVER figure that out.

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i will glue togheter my comments because there are an entire page of then.

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Quoting: Beamboom. We became wiser, and better at reading and better at understanding, even RESPECTING the system.

that is, the ones who survived, the ones who didnt go back to windows.

hell.

Quoting: BeamboomThey buy the TV with the features they want.

i use VLC because it has the features that i want AND it is open source.
i used firefox long before i knew the term open source.
and then i started respecting floss software and dontributing to it (donation, translation, bug report etc) because i believed in this cause, i saw for my self that it could produce good softwares so i wanted to support it.
i may be the exception, but if it werent for exceptions like me, we would never have something like linux to begin with.

you dont have to chose between opensource and features if you can have both, but we cant unless we increase our marketshare.

Quoting: Beamboombetween those VERY clear warnings were a listing of what exact packages we talk about.

of course, an newbie user know what xorg is. :whistle:

Quoting: Beamboomhas experienced on our Linux system during our first year for DECADES now.

if i suffer you have to suffer too!
bullshit. if you really think like that, why are you using modern computers? go back to "paper file system", tech evolve to make our lifes easier, i bet you have an monitor instead of an printer to read those comments right?

Quoting: Glog78A mac os or windows user don't understand containers and container based security and he don't want to understand why a program don't follow the theme he has set or why he needs a special driver version or or or ...

speaking of themes, one of the reasons why i started using linux was the freedom to customize, freedom is that, being able to make the system work and feel like you want.
removing theme customization like gnome is doing, or puting programs in a sandbox where they cant see the theme that the system is using to adapt (use it thenselves) feel so backward...

Quoting: Guest

Quoting: Glog78i won't try if a sudo rm -rf /* is catched on my distribution , cause i am 90% sure it isn't and i am to lazy to do so at least it works perfectly fine without a warning on subdirs ;)

Ha! It's not caught on my system! I pause and triple check every time I use the rm command with elevated permissions.

Reminds me of this: https://www.pcworld.com/article/431317/scary-steam-for-linux-bug-erases-all-the-personal-files-on-your-pc.html [External Link]

hell the redhat CEO deleted an entire serve worth of information by accident.

Quoting: eridanired123

Quoting: Liam Dawe

Quoting: Beamboom

Quoting: AussieEeveeThere is a tiny little warning blended in with all the other white noise on the screen, and blaming Linus is just silly.

TINY? lol - dude, there's TWO explicit warnings, very clearly put, AND info on what exact packages are about to be installed, AND you're asked to type a bloody SENTENCE to get through with it.
If that ain't clear enough then you're not really mature to use a system that gives you full control.

With great powers comes great responsibilities - and that goes for the package managers too. Most definitely.

But if you're after a OS that completely PADS you inside a fuzzy box where you can do nothing to harm you - well then Linux is not, was never and hopefully never will be your right choice.

It's a real shame to see such elitist nonsense being posted here. It's techno jargon in the errors, crammed around lots of overloading info that even "power users" screw up on. There is a reason why the term "sane defaults" even exists. Unless we want Linux on the desktop to continue to be gated by zealots and remain irrelevant, we have to appeal to users who don't have the time and patience to relearn every single thing and study all error messages, just to stop their system breaking.

Nah, this time I strongly believe you are wrong, Liam.

The text was clearly indicating that they were ESSENTIAL packages, if a person doesn't understand a term, in this case what “essential” means, then that person should look that term in a dictionary.

YES, Mr. Sebastian was affected by a flaw in the Linux system that should be fixed (and it is not about APT at all), but also, YES, the youtuber has responsibility in what happened too.

you need to high light the ESSENTIAL part in eye catch color, otherwise the user will just ignore the text wall.
or do you really think any one read the terms of service of anything?

Quoting: Purple Library GuyI don't think you have much of a picture of what the Linux desktop can be like for straightforward users to use.

he is too used to the problems of linux to see that it can evolve.
its almost like we didnt had ANDROID and a lot of smarth devices like tvs, digital cameras etc running linux and being easy to use at the same time.

sure, those are too dumbed down systems that you cant break but you cant do much, unless you have an way to root your device or know how to hack your camera, but come on! we can have an midle term!

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