"With the release of OBS Studio 25.0 RC1, one of the missing pieces for Linux is finally in with the inclusion of the Browser source plugin. "

great, it was an headeach to install it, and when i did, i figured out i had no use to it, that i couldnt already do by opening an browser...
but i think it will be usefull for others, so its good news, i just hope i didnt had wasted time on it, to not even use it, and if i had wait i wouldnt even need to waste time making it work.

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Quoting: KuJo

In an article on Business Insider, they cite multiple unnamed developers mentioning there was barely any financial incentive offered and some also mentioned how Google has a habit of killing projects. So clearly Stadia still has a lot to prove.

Quote from the Business Insider article:

It's a statement we heard echoed by several prominent indie developers and two publishing executives we spoke with for this piece.

The article at Business Insider is pure clickbait!

What does "several" mean? It means that there was more than 1 developer. More than 1 can also be 2. Without absolute numbers or names this is no representative statement! What are 2, 3 or maybe 10 indie developers if there are hundreds and thousands of them out there? And what are "two" Publishing Executives when there are certainly hundreds of them?

The headline attracts you ... and in the article there are half-baked statements which are pushed to the general statement. Clickbait!

Here also a youtuber has brought the whole thing well to the point:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FJnKdm6BKWA [External Link]

i agree, there are millions of indie developers, and a dozen of triple A developers.
what would google do?
throw millions of dollars each indie developer?
or, throw millions of dollars at a few dozen triple a developers, and a fez hundreds at a few indie ones?
of course they would say there is not much incentive, unless they have an exclusivity deal, their opinion dont count.

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Quoting: ShmerlI still don't get it, why Google can increase their list of potentially supported games by integrating their SDK with Wine as a fallback until they get more native Linux Vulkan games. They must have some reason why they didn't do it.

because having an version for linux, is not enough.
they need to run the game with an acceptable input lag, and they cant do that with wine.
plus, wine give then no Q/A, if you see the list of games that run on protondb, you will see a lot of false positives (games that lack some features such as cutscenes, but still were classified as platinum) compare that list with valve's white list, valve list is quite smaller.

another thing to consider is that google already tried to support wine in the past, looks like they came to the conclusion that it was not worth it.
valve could have tried this from the beggining, but its an bad option, looks like they are trying it as an last ressource since their plan A failed (steam machines).

google on the other hand, tried supporting wine, tried NaCl, tried supporting standards like vulkan, webGL, webGL2, web assembly, and now as an last atempt: streaming.
if wine was an solution, they wouldnt have to stream anything.
to make an game stream-able, you need an better performance than native, since the game will suffer from input-lag you have to compensate it somehow, meaning, if you were directly at the servers you would get an better performance than native, but since you arent you get the delay from sending the input and receiving the output.
that said, running games on wine is not an option, neither for Q/A that all the features will be there, nor from input lag point of view, nor from the cost of streaming (both sending the data over the wire and having the compute power to process millions of players anyway)

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Quoting: sudoshred

All in all, we didn't save too much time from having a Linux build, most of the system work is dependent on the platform. For example, achievements, save data handling, input handling, etc is specific for the Stadia platform and it doesn't really matter too much which OS is running in the background. The biggest single chunk of work was porting the game to Vulkan, which took a bit over a month.

No one is going to call bullshit on that?

Achievements, save data handling, possibly even input handling (Steam does some of this I believe), etc, aren't OS specific anyway. From steam to gog to itch to any console these are all different.

The biggest chunk of work was on Vulkan and they did that. The rest is superficial.

Just another excuse from Larian not to support Linux.

I was super excited for Baldur's Gate 3 and was going to pick it up on Stadia, but their garbage excuses have really taken the hype away for me personally.

The game went from an absolute buy for me to unlikely, just because I don't want to support their bullshit excuses.

i agree, that is just bullshit.
porting the code to vulkan is by fair the hardest part, after that, the rest of porting efforts is much cheaper, aside from the Q/A on different distros.

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so, if the chip suport gles3, why the game looks like crap?
i know this game isnt perfect in the graphic department, but on this level, it should be better

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<3

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Quoting: Guest

Quoting: elmapul

Quoting: Liam Dawe

Quoting: elmapulthings like this make me want to give up developing for linux...

Ah yes: Developers try to make things easier to deploy across all distributions.

You: I give up.

Makes sense.

first off, if that is the easier way that they are proposing, i cant imagine how hard it was before, plus i cant afford to run that solution, containers will dry out my limited performance.

second, valve supposedly solved this issue already, why do we still need this solution?

either its impossible to solve it once and forever, or it dont worth the performance cost.

in any case, i dont like how it sounds, the way things are, looks like someone is causing problems to sell the solution.
as they say, when the service is free, you are the product, with so many distros breaking backward compatibility with then selves or evolving into different directions that cause problems to support all of then without standards and clear benefits to that fragmentaiton, the only thing i can think off is that its sabotage, really.

its just ridiculous that we had 4 different browser engines (gecko, trident, presto, webkit) and things just worked in all of then. (nowadays, most browsers just use webkit/bink, because its cheaper than continuing developing their own code base, not because things broke all the time) if even microsoft could agree to follow some standards (web standards) there is no reason why the opensource world has to be that mess.

and before any one say that browsers arent as complex as an operating system, we can run entire operating systems inside one browser, there is no excuse.

So Valve never solved the issue, they just pushed the more difficult problems a bit further down the line. All the issues being seen right now were apparent when Valve took their Runtime route, but they had to try something.

Desktop development is a moving target. Libraries are updated, glibc gets updated, kernel gets updated, etc. Sometimes the ABI for some library changes, and any game that relies on it also breaks. Games suffer more visibly from this because so many of them are proprietary binaries, whereas the majority of software in a distro is actually open source and be simply recompiled to fix some breakage, or patched easily to fix others.

And while a Good(tm) developer can minimise risk of breakage, properly package their games, keep dependencies to a minimal, that's actually an increased barrier to development that is not desirable. There's no easy way to bundle games on a GNU/Linux system for those not as familiar with it, and guarantee that the game won't break on a whim in a couple years.

Web standards are completely different to library dependencies. I would suggest that's not a good analogy.

great, lets just shift the blame, its not the operating system fault that all aplications stop working after an update, its the applications fault that they didnt future prof then selves against whatever bullshit was in the mind of the os vendor when he issued the update patch.
i wonder what is the point of an operating system by that point.

not to mention that if we accept things like that, why would canonical change their behavior or anyone else? just break it and shift the blame to some one else, its definitely not our responsability.

i can agree that the aplication developers are responsible to some extent but they arent the only responsible for it, an good operating system should make sure that the aplications work for as long as its possible, otherwise the "good" developers will waste their time fixing stuff that shouldnt have broke instead of adding new features and fixing the bugs created by then instead of some thirdyparty.

" because so many of them are proprietary binaries" many open source games stoped working after some updates in the past, some times for stupid reasons like
"dependence x version 2.8.3 changed the name for 2.8.4"
being proprietary has nothing to do with it.

". There's no easy way to bundle games on a GNU/Linux system for those not as familiar with it, "
well, package managers were created, among other things, to stop aplications from distributing their own depencences, duplicating the used space on disk, looks like it was pointless since we are doing it anyway to solve the issues caused by package managers and the complete lack of standards of what comes included with an distribution and what not.
not to mention that we have 1% of the marketshare on the desktop, and deskop is just 1/3 of the incoming of an game (i'm not including mobile games here, they are an different type of game)
then we have to support one thounsand distributions and the end user will send us (or the solution on google, for) an error message in the system languague that they use, instead of english.
combine all that with problems that only occur in certain software, and you explain why almost no one codes/uses for linux.

that is why, we cant put the full blame on the aplication developers, they are the weakest link in the chain.
users can simply change the software, or the operating system (go back to windows)
companies like canonical dont give a fuck about desktop anymore, their money come from companies, especialy big ones like pixar.
so who will be the scapegoat the and be blamed when things stop working?

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Quoting: Shmerl

Quoting: EikeIt's just a matter of time.

That said, I avoided buying a GTX 2000, because at the moment, it feels more like an expensive gimmick.

It is a gimmick. More of a marketing tool than a really useful feature. To achieve good quality real time ray tracing, you need really powerful hardware. And one that can be fit in a single GPU gives at best some minor enhancement to the lighting, and as I said above, it naturally comes at the cost of everything else.

wtf?
Ray tracing is the holygrail of computer graphics.
maybe Rtx, their dedicated cores, may be gimick, but Ray tracing?
that is simply the reason why the computer graphics industry had to use countless other gimmicks, because they didnt had real time ray trace, what nvidia did was an miracle that was later followed by others, sure, its not as good as rendering the entire frame, the same way that eevee (on blender) is not as good as cycles, but its close enough.

rendering in 16ms what usually take hours in a much better machine is not an small deal, sure its not as good as, but its impressive nonetheless.

one thing that i hate in gamers in general is how clueless they are, i dont give a fuck about 4k, raytracing is an serious technology, 4k is just a gimmick, but when they realizes that they would have to give up on 4k to play with raytracing, what they did? trash talked the technology, and that is the reason why it didnt sell as it should.
sure, there are other factors too, like games that arent really optimized for it, but seem the reception that this technology had, just disgusts me.

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Quoting: Liam Dawe

Quoting: elmapulthings like this make me want to give up developing for linux...

Ah yes: Developers try to make things easier to deploy across all distributions.

You: I give up.

Makes sense.

first off, if that is the easier way that they are proposing, i cant imagine how hard it was before, plus i cant afford to run that solution, containers will dry out my limited performance.

second, valve supposedly solved this issue already, why do we still need this solution?

either its impossible to solve it once and forever, or it dont worth the performance cost.

in any case, i dont like how it sounds, the way things are, looks like someone is causing problems to sell the solution.
as they say, when the service is free, you are the product, with so many distros breaking backward compatibility with then selves or evolving into different directions that cause problems to support all of then without standards and clear benefits to that fragmentaiton, the only thing i can think off is that its sabotage, really.

its just ridiculous that we had 4 different browser engines (gecko, trident, presto, webkit) and things just worked in all of then. (nowadays, most browsers just use webkit/bink, because its cheaper than continuing developing their own code base, not because things broke all the time) if even microsoft could agree to follow some standards (web standards) there is no reason why the opensource world has to be that mess.

and before any one say that browsers arent as complex as an operating system, we can run entire operating systems inside one browser, there is no excuse.

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Quoting: redneckdrowUsed to use it, but since it went proprietary, I've found alternatives. Such as Pixelorama (really neat), Krita (my favorite program to color images with), Gimp, Inkscape, and so on.

I just hate it when a FOSS app goes proprietary for reasons such as him being upset about it being in distros repositories. Why did he bother making it GPL if he didn't want it distributed and modified in the first place then?! :><:

Also, Krita seems to do okay with sales, so Aseprite's dev's argument about open source hurting his bottom line is crap! He posted a huge talk about it years ago, which I'm too lazy to look up. Why does he think we call Linux based OSes "Distrobutions"?

Sorry :S:, had to get that out of my system. Politics aside it is a good program, just haven't used it in a while.

if its so easy to develop an open source software and make an living out of it, do it yourself.
the asesprite developer has no obligation in doing so, or in fixing his software once it was broken, not by him but by the mantainers of the repositories.

there is a good reason why projects like Renpy dont support the version on the repos (they dont even work, whetever did the renpy packaging for ubuntu didnt tested it, because an 2 minutes test could attest that it dont work)
perhaps that is the goal, create problems to sell solutions, sell integration, certification, deployment services.

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