Quoting: Lofty

Quoting: elmapul

Quoting: Lofty

Quoting: melkemind

Quoting: Guest8.6 tflops is crazy number for a handheld device, it is twice bigger than ps4pro, on par with rtx2070 tier GPU, and just a bit behind current gen consoles. you literally can replace a decent gaming pc with it

And that's probably all it's good for, to be honest. To get that kind of speed, you have to run it at full power and barely get an hour of battery life. Coupled with the clunky Windows UI and half-baked Asus software, it would be better to use it plugged into a monitor on a desk than as a handheld. It makes sense if you want it instead of a gaming laptop. For a desktop, you can still build a cheaper machine. In fact, I just built one for my living room, and it runs SteamOS. :grin:

like i said previously im not sure this thing is really at 8.6TF. i could be wrong but it says "Upto".
So this might just be false advertising / marketing.. like, Technically if you ran the thing in desktop APU environment it might be .. idk seems a bit high seen as the steam deck is 1.6TF and terraflops can be measured in different ways to inflate the number.

Steam desk is 15W =1.6TF
ROG Ally is max 30W at 8.6TF

I know its a new generation RDNA but the extreme variant doesn't actually have anything different architecturally than the basic Z1 its just able to use more power.. so your paying $100 for a software boost if anything. You might actually be able to unlock the basic version with a firmware update.

https://www.amd.com/en/processors/ryzen-z1 [External Link]

It's possible that the measure of value for TFLOPS is not based on even the 30W limit but just theoretical. Or i could be wrong and that's the right number.

BTW that number is actually closer to a RTX2070-Super than a stock 2070. Which has a 215W TDP ...

maybe they are including the ability to an external gpu?

maybe idk.

confirmed!
https://youtu.be/qLVgr29NMA0?t=207 [External Link]

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Quoting: Lofty

Quoting: melkemind

Quoting: Guest8.6 tflops is crazy number for a handheld device, it is twice bigger than ps4pro, on par with rtx2070 tier GPU, and just a bit behind current gen consoles. you literally can replace a decent gaming pc with it

And that's probably all it's good for, to be honest. To get that kind of speed, you have to run it at full power and barely get an hour of battery life. Coupled with the clunky Windows UI and half-baked Asus software, it would be better to use it plugged into a monitor on a desk than as a handheld. It makes sense if you want it instead of a gaming laptop. For a desktop, you can still build a cheaper machine. In fact, I just built one for my living room, and it runs SteamOS. :grin:

like i said previously im not sure this thing is really at 8.6TF. i could be wrong but it says "Upto".
So this might just be false advertising / marketing.. like, Technically if you ran the thing in desktop APU environment it might be .. idk seems a bit high seen as the steam deck is 1.6TF and terraflops can be measured in different ways to inflate the number.

Steam desk is 15W =1.6TF
ROG Ally is max 30W at 8.6TF

I know its a new generation RDNA but the extreme variant doesn't actually have anything different architecturally than the basic Z1 its just able to use more power.. so your paying $100 for a software boost if anything. You might actually be able to unlock the basic version with a firmware update.

https://www.amd.com/en/processors/ryzen-z1 [External Link]

It's possible that the measure of value for TFLOPS is not based on even the 30W limit but just theoretical. Or i could be wrong and that's the right number.

BTW that number is actually closer to a RTX2070-Super than a stock 2070. Which has a 215W TDP ...

maybe they are including the ability to an external gpu?

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Quoting: GroganIt's going to hurt the Steam Deck for sure. Moreover, I'd expect Steam Decks to start shipping with Windows configurations soon.

Also, it's no coincidence that Microsoft is buying up all the big game publishers. It also wouldn't surprise me if Asus was getting near free OS licensing from Microsoft as a carrot.

Quoting: GroganIt's going to hurt the Steam Deck for sure. Moreover, I'd expect Steam Decks to start shipping with Windows configurations soon.

Also, it's no coincidence that Microsoft is buying up all the big game publishers. It also wouldn't surprise me if Asus was getting near free OS licensing from Microsoft as a carrot.

negative licensing. (microsoft could be paying then)
anyway, i doubt valve will give windows options, dealing microsoft is like dealing with the devil, either you go full windows or they dont give you a far deal.
they usually charge for device sold not device with windows, meaning that linux machines would pay the windows licence too, and cost the same if not more.

valve will probably fight with prices.
they make money on each game sold and have almost 0 competition on steamOS, that alone is a big reason for then to charge less.
if other stores start supporting linux, they win again because they will reduce gaming dependence on windows.
and even if this device sell well, that might mean more people purchasing pc games in many stores but mostly steam.

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Quoting: const

Quoting: Eike

Quoting: KohlyKohlTouchpads are a must with these devices because they play PC games and are not setup like a console device with controller first support.

For me, playing mostly point and click, something to actually point and click feels vital. For others, this may not so much be the case.

It really depends on what games you play. Just took a sneak peak on IGN review comments and naturally, someone claimed the ROG would play more games because windows. I actually don't think so. Anything not designed around controller input will be extremely uncomfortable or plain unusable and that's a huge chunk. Does it even have gyro?
Well, whatever. Hardware wise, this absolutely has it's strengths and for some people it might actually be the better choice. Not for me.

its time for valve o promote some touchpad friendly games
XD

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" Competition is absolutely good! "
so long as there is competition.
windows marketshare make it pretty much impossible to compete.

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wait, there is a "," instead of a "." or "!" after the word free? LOL

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"3 months of xbox gamepass for free"
sus

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Quoting: TheRiddickThey should really put another label on all these for when a games been tested 100%, start to finish. Not just verified to launch and render main menu or in-game briefly.

Start to Finish Verification by Valve or Community.

i think they do, but not all games, and the blame may be in individual employees who lie instead of on valve's policy.
if that is the case then... double check everything?
any solution for this problem seems like a hell to me. (in terms of management)

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Quoting: CatKiller

Quoting: elmapultesting MMO then... is a impossible feat.

hopefully valve should have contacts in the industry that allow then to "cheat" in games, like using bots to test the entire game, playing in private servers to not affect other users, skiping parts of the game that were already tested, geting save states for any part of the game and so on.
gaining exp/leveling up faster than the normal, acessing any area or item...
right... right?

What Valve really need is for game developers to do the testing themselves - game devs are testing the games already anyway, they just need to also have Linux/Deck as part of their testing pipeline. They need to build up momentum before that will be a reality. But Valve literally can't do it all themselves, especially when some developers seem to go out of their way to break things with their launchers and whatnot.

yes i know, but in the mean time the developers could at least provide their own internal debug tools to valve...
that is, if they care about geting the verfied checkmark.

its a chicken and egg problem as aways, if steam deck sell enough then developers will care, but if they didnt care it wont sell.

but, to be fair, we already have enough games to attract gamers, i dont think this is the problem anymore, i think the lack of marketing or capacity to produce a lot of devices and distribute then might be the main culpirit here.
steam deck has an good install base for an single device, its not every laptop model that sells >1 million, that is why oems like dell have tons of models with different configurations/prices, and the number of combinations get even highter if we take into account different vendors like asus, hp, etc.

1 million for a single device is a lot, but an console sells that in a single month (especially christmas), maybe even an day during the launch and sell even more, another thing to consider is that install base is important but speed of growth/trend of decline is more, otherwise we would still see new games being developed/ported to ps2, ds and wii.
and there is a little paradox here too: the deck has too many games, in theory that is good because it attract players, but if the players didnt follow (purchase the device) then a lot of options means a lot of competition, not to mention that most steam deck owners already have an pc where they can play.

TL:DR it will be a tough battle.

one metric i would like to consider is the Rog Ally from Asus, if the deck can keep it momentum and accelerating it growth despite the competition with the ally, without droping the price, then we are in the right direction.
i hope people dont over estimate the importance of trackpads and underestimate too much an OS specifically tailored for gaming.
another thing to consider, windows being bad at the netbooks form factors, didnt killed windows but killed the netbooks, the history may repeat itself here.
if too many people chose the wrong device this can tarnish the reputation of the whole category, that is why we had things like nintendo seal of aproval, and why tablets were an flop when microsoft tried it but a huge success when apple did the ipad.

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Quoting: Klaas

Quoting: KimyrielleIn my own experience, most of the time when I find a "Verified" game to be less than playable is when the testers apply a very loose definition of "legible text".

Exactly. I've probably repeated this too many times, but it's so important: If the game has text that is supposed to be read (so anything but press [e] to use) it's a good idea to make the size changeable by the user.

Good example: The Talos Principle.
Bad examples: F.E.A.R. and Sleeping Dogs.

no game developer considered an future where an steam deck would be a thing

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