Quoting: pb

Quoting: elmapulhave we checked the size and weight of that thing? if linus from linus tech tips complained that his hand were too small to press some buttons with confort, imagine that thing in the hands of a kid!

i think this device might not be apropriate for kids, it may not be targeted at it either, so its not only not gonna direct compete with an switch, but will be too much affected by the lack of fortinite.

It's just a portable gaming PC, you can connect any controller and put the deck on the table or connect it to a tv. If the grip is too big for a kid, it doesn't mean the device is useless. Anyway lots of teens are pretty big I'd say. ;-)

by useless i mean to be used in it intended main use case (portable), it cant replace an gameboy when you are in school recess for example.

but you're right i forgot about the other use cases

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Quoting: pb

Quoting: Purple Library GuyI have a question slightly to the side of the discussion so far:
OK, so Fortnite is a ridiculously popular game. But is it the kind of game people would be likely to play on a thing like a Steam Deck?

One of my kids plays it on a gaming pc (through GFN), while the other plays it on switch. Both are enjoying the game. So I'd say yes.

to be fair, i see a lot of people commenting that most fortinite players are kids (considering the ridiculous ammount of players, its impossible that all of then are kids, but most of then may be)
and guess what...
have we checked the size and weight of that thing? if linus from linus tech tips complained that his hand were too small to press some buttons with confort, imagine that thing in the hands of a kid!

i think this device might not be apropriate for kids, it may not be targeted at it either, so its not only not gonna direct compete with an switch, but will be too much affected by the lack of fortinite.

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Quoting: Purple Library GuyYou know, as someone whose only interest in Fortnite is strategic (lots of people would want it who would be buying a Steam Deck, so it would be good if the Steam Deck allowed it to be played, if I want the Steam Deck to be a success) it hadn't even occurred to me that actual existing Linux users might want to, like, play the game, and so there would be a downside if a solution didn't allow that.

my only interest is strategic too.
steam deck is the "killer app" for linux, so it has to run fortinite, but it would be nice if some people liked steamOS enough on their deck to try linux on other devices like their desktop.

speaking of it, there is nothing stoping nintendo, sony or even sega from making consoles using linux, in fact, they already did with nes mini, snes mini, playstation classic and sega game gear micro (relased in 2020)!
what if switch 2 runs linux, or maybe sony's ps6?, it may be tempting for then to relase an device that already have an big library of game, and while they can do that puting emulators for their own system, the pc library is much bigger and things like proton make ports uncessary, nintendo has strugled to get support from triple A thirdy parties even on switch that is very popular...
hell, we do have atari VCS too! and Intellivision amico!

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Quoting: EikeThere probably are more Linux users than Windows users (phones, routers, ... toasters?)...

... but that doesn't help Fortnite on Linux.

i dotn think you read the context

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Quoting: Doc AngeloI'm not talking about exact numbers either. Maybe I was unclear about what I mean with "the other way around". I am saying that there are 10 times more Linux users than Fortnite players. That's why I asked if you mean Linux gamers or Linux users.

sigh

first off , windows has about 1.5 billion of users with 90% of marketshare, linux has 1%, wich is about 16.7 millions.
some statistics vary the number of users, the best data that i saw say it have 5% of marketshare, lets work with that number.
at the best case scenario 83,5 millions of users. (excluding android)

the last time i checked, fortinite had 250 millions of players.

not all pc or linux users are gamers, not all gamers play fortinite.

so why do you think linux has more users than fortinite has players?
maybe on pc, considering fortinite is also avaliable for android, iOS, playstation, xbox and i think switch.

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Quoting: NociferExactly. The fact alone that Epic a.k.a. Tim Sweeney has already collaborated with Valve to bring official EAC support to Proton and the Steam Deck points to him at least sincerely believing what he says about Fortnite. He didn't block Proton from using EAC, it's rather the opposite, even though he could. And after all, EAC is one product (and its use affects the game companies that opt to enable it, not Epic) and Fortnite is another product - a company can have vastly different strategies for its different products, according to the target market for them.

not to mention that their investment to port EAC to linux, may be enough to guarantee that the cheaters will not have enough of a demand to hack other games, but hacking fortinite will raise the demand, and it may raise enough that their investiments would render useless.
in other words, bringing fortinite may be enough to kill EAC on linux and all the other games in the process...

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Quoting: ZlopezYou can do the same on Windows, it's just more difficult.

the entire point of linux is that you CAN customize stuff without worrying about reverse enginering anything, "you can do the same on windows" aply to anything if you put enough effort into it, why are you using linux if "you can do the same on windows"?

Quoting: ZlopezI don't thing even on Linux most cheaters would ever want to mess with their kernel, just to be able to cheat in some game.

sigh.

cheaters dont write their own tools anymore, its not 1998 anymore where most code were bad written to the point that you can just press alt+f4 to skip windows login screen instead of typing user name+ password.
the only reason why we have cheaters nowadays in those big games is because there is a whole industry arround it, millions of persons purchasing softwares writen by thousands of employees.
on linux, those employees can simply fork ubuntu , customize the kernel and relase the "cheatOS".

did you see the issue here?

Quoting: ZlopezPasswords are not software (it's just string and the servers should only store hash and add salt as well), so I don't think the anti-cheat software is just password that should benefit from security by obscurity.

its not password, but its akin to it, in the sense that the security is that you dont know exactly what it does to make sure you arent cheating.

for example, if you knew that it check if you are running any process named: "famousCheatingTool.exe " and if you are, kick you out of the game, then you know that you can just rename famousCheatingTool to famousCheatingTool2.exe or definitelyNotFamousCheatingTool.exe, and dodge the anti cheat solution.

the same goes for any suspect activity on the memory etc.
i dont know how an anti cheat work exaclty, but not knowing is exactly the point, its IMPOSSIBLE to stop people from controlling their own computer, just like DRM didnt stoped people from copying something, it can only delay the stuff.

the main difference here is:
once you break the DRM of one music, you can make as many copies of it as you want.
once you break an anti cheat, you can connect to their servers for a little while,but then they update their software and you have to find another way to break their anti cheat stuff.
meanwhile , they may detect that you were using this cheating solution and ban you, unless the cheating solution figure out that they found their code pattern and change to a new working solution fast enough to avoid the cheating detection and avoid your ban.

Quoting: ZlopezThis is a correct point, but the freedom of one person ends where freedom of others begins. I don't care if people are cheating in online games at all, it's their choice, but they should do it with the permission of others. I cheated multiple times with my friends on LAN parties, but just for fun and with them knowing.

It will be best to just put cheater in the same match with other cheaters, so they can have fun together. :tongue:

to do that you still have to detect that they are cheating.

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Quoting: Doc Angelo

Quoting: elmapulits another thing if you find an cheater in lets say 1 in every 10 matchs.

I'm not sure what kind of games you're playing, but in some games, cheating is already at this level, and worse. Ever played PUBG or Apex?

due, i'm not saying 10 is the exactly number, i dont know what the break point is for each human being, what is the point that he give up playing something, it will vary from person to person, i was just quoting a few numbers to explain the point, not trying to inform the exact number where everything breaks.
i'm not paid to comment on the internet so i will not waste hundredes of hours doing research to reply something.

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Quoting: Doc Angelo

Quoting: elmapuldude fortinite alone has 250 millions of players, and the cheating industry move more money than the entire linux gaming industry (if we assume its 100 smaller than the windows gaming industry)
so yes, he might be right.

i cant remember where i saw the cheating numbers, i think it was one of the valve conferences arround anti-cheating.

What's your argument? He might be right because the player count is high?

i cant believe i have to explain something so simple...
why companies dont invest on linux?
if you port your game to switch, the port cost may be arround "10 millions", but you may earn "100 millions" after the port, if you port to pc, the port cost may be "10 millions" but you earn 150 million after the port.
if you port to linux, the port cost may be 10 million, but you earn 150 thousand dollars, in other words, you spend more porting an game than you eared!

its the same for cheating.
the reason why we have millions of cheaters is not because millions of people know how to hack, its because a few people do, those people make cheating solutions and sell then in the market.
no one will spend time trying to hack an game that has 10 users, unless its dirty easy to hack it (any kid can do type of hacking)
but if one game has dozens or hundreds of millions of players, then you may hire an entire team of hackers, the cost to hack it will be higher (because the company who make the game invest a lot of money in defense) but the profits for hacking it will be higher too.

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Quoting: mphuZEpic had chances to promote their Fortnite and store on Linux, but they refused themselves, so they go to hell.

The Poles with GOG had enough time to meet the audience, who most of all promoted the position of DRM-free. But for years they've been wiping their feet on us, so go to hell.

Humble.. Well, just go to hell.

As a result, on Linux we have only two time-tested stores that really care about the platform: Steam and itch.io :wink:

dude...
people already have an big game library on GOG, epic, etc, if those stores dont work on linux, most people will dump linux rather than the store.
fortinite alone has 250 millions of players, that is more than 10x what linux have of users, what is the most likely scenario here?
that steam deck sell a lot but most people install windows on it, sell a lot and people keep steamOS on it, or it flop?

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