Quoting: gabberI (and I guess many others) was hoping Stadia would be the push for Linux Gaming on the desktop, because in the backend they said to run Linux (Do we know if this is 100% the case?). Now we have games on Stadia with no Linux support outside of Stadia. Bummer.

stadia runs on linux, if stadia was good enough to act as an replacement for local gaming for most people, then they would consider using only it, and sundely an chromebook or linux desktop would seem like an viable option.
when you computer break or you going to buy an new one, you can pay for the most expensive ones to game on it, or just buy an cheaper computer and stream all the way.

if more people started using linux as an result of it, then some companies would start to offer the stadia offline option, aka, native linux gaming.

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Quoting: Glog78

Quoting: denyasis

Quoting: Glog78Since i use arch on my machine , there is no real default "net"

Really? I'm not familiar with arch, I've used the wiki a ton... it's So helpful!!

But I'd be really surprised if you have to backup all your custom confs in /etc because pacman overwrites them on every update. Or that a DE doesn't use PolKit (or equivalent) without some sort of base default rules package.

I feel it would be a little weird to have no system safe guards, even coming from upstream.

*I could be totally wrong about Arch and if so, I'd gladly share a frosty beverage of your choice if you could enlighten me on the rules.d local override process for Polkit. Trying to fix an issue with Steam and the network.

** Oh, I missed that part in your post. If you count OpenSuse as "mainstream". It has full system snapshot by default, courtesy of BTRFS. Reboot, pick the old snapshot in GRUB and good to go! (Ok... you need a terminal command to finish the rollback, you know, altering the file system and all).

There are safe guards (like pacman usually by default don't overwrite configs but put them next to the existing file) Which is good and bad *lol* ... imagine a config not working because of a missing parameter after a reboot because you didn't checked for the new config template (hadn't had this since years but i had this a few times) *ups* << usually they are not leaving the system in an "unusable" state but i would probably define unusable different than a "newbie" :) -> imagine dns not working anymore after an systemd update or since i boot directly from efi into the kernel i once used an "outdated" way to write the root partition into efi ... lets say thanks god i always have a "normal" bootloader ready ...

With default i mean there is no default net which you can be sure to be find on every arch installation. I for example can boot my X even without polkit (init 2 -> startx /usr/bin/xterm ;) ). There are however packages with files under /usr/share/polkit-1/rules.d and /usr/share/polkit-1/actions. There is no special rule for steam (if that helps) The last issue i had with steam and network i fixed by setting up a local dns proxy and re-enabling ipv6 -> had a ipv4 only config before.

OpenSuse i would call as mainstream but when was the last time someone adviced OpenSuse somewhere for a beginner? Even during 7 pages of this discussion you and me are probably the only two who talk about OpenSuse / Suse so far. Being able to do so on the terminal is a step forward. But i guess we are far from "newbie" friendly even at this point.

i saw something even worse, not being able to login because some file was encoded with the wrong encoding.
(eg: it was UTF 8 when it should be UTF16 or the opposite)
imagine reading an file searching for errors in the code of the config file, only to realize... there is NONE, but you know that this is the file wich is causing problem...
then you change the encoding and puff! it work again!
an newbie would NEVER figure that out.

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i will glue togheter my comments because there are an entire page of then.

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Quoting: Beamboom. We became wiser, and better at reading and better at understanding, even RESPECTING the system.

that is, the ones who survived, the ones who didnt go back to windows.

hell.

Quoting: BeamboomThey buy the TV with the features they want.

i use VLC because it has the features that i want AND it is open source.
i used firefox long before i knew the term open source.
and then i started respecting floss software and dontributing to it (donation, translation, bug report etc) because i believed in this cause, i saw for my self that it could produce good softwares so i wanted to support it.
i may be the exception, but if it werent for exceptions like me, we would never have something like linux to begin with.

you dont have to chose between opensource and features if you can have both, but we cant unless we increase our marketshare.

Quoting: Beamboombetween those VERY clear warnings were a listing of what exact packages we talk about.

of course, an newbie user know what xorg is. :whistle:

Quoting: Beamboomhas experienced on our Linux system during our first year for DECADES now.

if i suffer you have to suffer too!
bullshit. if you really think like that, why are you using modern computers? go back to "paper file system", tech evolve to make our lifes easier, i bet you have an monitor instead of an printer to read those comments right?

Quoting: Glog78A mac os or windows user don't understand containers and container based security and he don't want to understand why a program don't follow the theme he has set or why he needs a special driver version or or or ...

speaking of themes, one of the reasons why i started using linux was the freedom to customize, freedom is that, being able to make the system work and feel like you want.
removing theme customization like gnome is doing, or puting programs in a sandbox where they cant see the theme that the system is using to adapt (use it thenselves) feel so backward...

Quoting: Guest

Quoting: Glog78i won't try if a sudo rm -rf /* is catched on my distribution , cause i am 90% sure it isn't and i am to lazy to do so at least it works perfectly fine without a warning on subdirs ;)

Ha! It's not caught on my system! I pause and triple check every time I use the rm command with elevated permissions.

Reminds me of this: https://www.pcworld.com/article/431317/scary-steam-for-linux-bug-erases-all-the-personal-files-on-your-pc.html [External Link]

hell the redhat CEO deleted an entire serve worth of information by accident.

Quoting: eridanired123

Quoting: Liam Dawe

Quoting: Beamboom

Quoting: AussieEeveeThere is a tiny little warning blended in with all the other white noise on the screen, and blaming Linus is just silly.

TINY? lol - dude, there's TWO explicit warnings, very clearly put, AND info on what exact packages are about to be installed, AND you're asked to type a bloody SENTENCE to get through with it.
If that ain't clear enough then you're not really mature to use a system that gives you full control.

With great powers comes great responsibilities - and that goes for the package managers too. Most definitely.

But if you're after a OS that completely PADS you inside a fuzzy box where you can do nothing to harm you - well then Linux is not, was never and hopefully never will be your right choice.

It's a real shame to see such elitist nonsense being posted here. It's techno jargon in the errors, crammed around lots of overloading info that even "power users" screw up on. There is a reason why the term "sane defaults" even exists. Unless we want Linux on the desktop to continue to be gated by zealots and remain irrelevant, we have to appeal to users who don't have the time and patience to relearn every single thing and study all error messages, just to stop their system breaking.

Nah, this time I strongly believe you are wrong, Liam.

The text was clearly indicating that they were ESSENTIAL packages, if a person doesn't understand a term, in this case what “essential” means, then that person should look that term in a dictionary.

YES, Mr. Sebastian was affected by a flaw in the Linux system that should be fixed (and it is not about APT at all), but also, YES, the youtuber has responsibility in what happened too.

you need to high light the ESSENTIAL part in eye catch color, otherwise the user will just ignore the text wall.
or do you really think any one read the terms of service of anything?

Quoting: Purple Library GuyI don't think you have much of a picture of what the Linux desktop can be like for straightforward users to use.

he is too used to the problems of linux to see that it can evolve.
its almost like we didnt had ANDROID and a lot of smarth devices like tvs, digital cameras etc running linux and being easy to use at the same time.

sure, those are too dumbed down systems that you cant break but you cant do much, unless you have an way to root your device or know how to hack your camera, but come on! we can have an midle term!

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Quoting: Beamboom

Quoting: AussieEeveeThere is a tiny little warning blended in with all the other white noise on the screen, and blaming Linus is just silly.

TINY? lol - dude, there was NO "white noise". There's FIRST an explicit warnings, very clearly put, AND info on what exact packages are about to be installed (for you to make up your own mind), then ANOTHER very explicit warning AND you're required to type a bloody SENTENCE to get through with it.
If that ain't clear enough then you're not really mature to use a system that gives you full control. You're supposed to READ what the system tells you. Read, and comprehend.

With great powers comes great responsibilities - and that goes for the package managers too. Most definitely.

But if you're after a OS that completely PADS you inside a fuzzy box where you can do nothing to harm you - well then Linux is not, was never and hopefully never will be your right choice.

this is bullshit.
it dont have to be black and white.

maybe the person want to have an desktop enviroment like KDE or gnome without all the issues that came with linux.
maybe they want to give a new life to an older hardware.
maybe they arent fluent in english and couldnt understand the whole sentence.

people shouldnt be forced to chose between all the benefits of linux or having to deal with something like windows.
this mindset is what prevent linux from geting more marketshare and as result, prevent us from having more games and softwares that support our system, until the day we can no longer do our work or live our lives because linux became unberable due to it weak ecosystem, and its not economically viable to use, or its too much headeach, too much games/softwares we have to give up.

Quoting: BeamboomI use Linux because it's NOT the padded regime of Windows and MacOS. There will always be a trade-off between security and efficiency.

that is why we have many distros, there is no way in hell that all of then have to cattter to linux elistists like you.
want to use some hard to use distro? there will always be an option for you, but no, you want exclusivity, you want to be one of the only ones who CAN use linux.

i bet you didnt started by compiling your own kernel and installing the user interface from scratch.

just give newbies an option, if they want to go deeper they can use arch or something, but Pop!OS isnt designed for that audience.

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Quoting: WorMzyI have no use for this software, but it's probably good that it's getting some idiot-proofing ahead of the Deck launch (even if Valve are protecting the base OS image and using overlays, reducing the risk that dumb users pose to themselves...)

its not dumb users, its newbies, and everyone start as an newbie.
unless you are an linux user
https://gaming.stackexchange.com/questions/21664/dwarf-fortress-learning-curve [External Link]

its like the dwarf fortress learning curve in this xkcd comic.

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Quoting: TheSHEEEPSteam is replaceable (in case competitors ever get their shit together... it's a cosmic joke that so far they don't), the games are not.

depend on what kind of game we are talking about, there are countless clones of tetris, so we can say they are replaceable.
i also dont care about owning all platforms out there, i'm happy with a few, as long as i have at least one, i gave up on mario because the cost of an nintendo console for the benefit of an platform isnt worth it, i can play other platform games.
the same goes for fighting games, since im not an expert in any genre to be able to tell the minimum differences between each one.

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Quoting: rustybroomhandle

Quoting: GuestValve don't really provide marketing

Well, there are the Steam Next [External Link] festivals that they do regularly.

its pointless.
steam next select the games they think are worth, wich isnt a bad thing (curation is aways good) but wont help with exposure if you arent selected.

other than that, i think there is a big miss conception here about marketing.
if valve is helping you, but its also helping your competition, they are helping no one.

by competition, i mean competition for the consumers atention, to discover that your game even exists

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Quoting: TheSHEEEP

Quoting: CatKillerDevelopers aren't paying for anything, customers are.

That's semantics, really.
I'd say customers give 100% of the money to the developers, which have to forward 30% of it to Valve. Or customers give 100% to Valve, which withhold 30% from the developer - that's probably more correct.
Either way, developers lose 30% of what the customers were paying for their game. The developers are the ones losing more money in that scenario than they should.
Keep in mind that taxes go on top of that, in the EU that's about 20% gone additionally (unless you add 20% to the price in VAT countries, which I don't think anyone really does).
So from the get-go you lose 50% of value. Ouch. I'd be pissed about that, too.

Did Valve develop or market that game? No. They host its data and provide some (good) service around it - which is fair to compensate, of course, but 1/3rd is excessive. 1/4th or 5th would be much more reasonable, you don't have to do the lowballing that Epic does to just cover the expenses (of the hosting/service).

companies pay 20% of taxes, but they pay 20% on top of their income, not on top of the gross revenue.
in other words, if consummers pay valve 1 million for your game, you earn 700.000 from those 1 million, and pay 20% from those 700.000 as taxes, not 20% from the original 1 million.
valve has to pay their taxes too, but you wont see your money disapearing twice for that reason.

another thing to consider is game engine taxes, for instance, if you make your game using unreal, in that scenario, you also pay another 5% to epic, unless you relased your game in EGS, in that case they cut the engine royalites to 0, and their own royalites is 12%.

keep in mind that you pay 5% of gross revenue, in other words, from those 1 million that valve earned!
or at least, that is what i understood the last time i checked (but i might be confounding it with unity)

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Quoting: jrtI don't think there is anything wrong with taking 30%. They don't have a monopoly, so they can set the prices and if you don't like them you can still use gog, itch or your own launcher. Ubisoft, League of Legends, Overwatch, Fortnite,... seem all to do fine without steam.
Also, as a Linux user, I don't buy games that do not run on my system. Windows only games that run through proton are therefore sales that wouldn't have happened without Valve's work. Keeping 70% vs. no sale at all sounds like a good deal to me.

that is non sense.
linux has 1% of marketshare.
valve takes 30% of all the sames on a platform with 90% of marketshare.
if you earn 900.000 dollars with an game and valve takes 30%, you end up with 630.000 dollars.
then you sell more 1% wich give you aditionally 9.000 dolars, and out of those valve take 30% and you end up with 6300 extra dolars thanks to valve making your game avaliable for linux.

you dont have to be a genious to realize that if valve changed their cut to 20% instead, you would end up with 90.000 more instead of 6300.

now, i know that some indie games were ported to linux in the 5 first humble bundles and 20% of their income came from linux users, but back then, there were almost no games avaliable for linux, so the lack of competition was the main reason for those extra sales, nowadays that there are plenty of games for linux, linux is just 1~4% of the sales of an game, and with proton, pretty much the entire library works on it, so its just 1% more.
so the only big thing that valve is doing to make an difference is steamdeck, that might be a game changer for sales, or not.

now, dont get me wrong, i apreciate what valve is doing for us, but the same can be said about any company, as much as i despise microsoft for being an monopoly on pc, if they werent arround maybe all the big games would be console exclusives nowadays, and consoles would be even worse than they are without an xbox competing on it.

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