that is what happens when this type of bug get some exposure...
i mean, 1 million of users reporting a bug? nah that is not important.
one big influencer reporting it? oh, shit! we need to do something about it!

ok, to be fair, there arent 1 million of bugs reports on the linus incident because many people got stuck without an gui and cant use their computer anymore to report the freaking bug.
:whistle:

before someone say something like "this is a different bug" i'm talking about this class of bugs, system breaking bugs.
and yes, uninstalling an system essential feature because you dont know what you are doing is an bug, or at least an ux design flaw.

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if steam deck sell well and many people dont install windows and use the desktop mode...
then it can be a game changer indeed, and KDE is the default on it, so it might work.

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Quoting: whizse

Quoting: elmapulthat is a good metric because i see the numbers a lot of times to see if they changed.
the number of bugs being closed isnt changing too fast, unlike the number of new bugs being reported.
sure, people can open a bug report to report that something is working fine, but even if we filter out those (white list request) there are still too many bugs.

and if there are many duplicate reports, then the tag duplicate would be full of entries, unless no one is looking at this.

No, it's not even a good metric for this, since Valve uses one bug report for each game. One game can have zero issues, or a hundred.

fair enough, i'm making an script to meassure this.

version 0.9 of the script is done:
https://github.com/Elmapul/proton-good-metric [External Link]
i recomend reading the commit notes to better understand what it is:
https://github.com/Elmapul/proton-good-metric/commits/main [External Link]

sorry for the sarcastic name =p

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Quoting: slembckeIt's frustrating that Khronos doesn't just make a swapchain + init library.

but i think there is a boilerplate code for it =p
not made by khrnos, i think it was lunarG or something like that.

Quoting: slembckeBah! Unfortunately I'm not sure I have anything truly constructive to say here.

lol, amusing, i know that feel, when i'm trying to write my stories.

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Quoting: Purple Library Guy

Quoting: elmapul"This sounds like a really great project, and hopefully one game developers will appreciate."
one or some?
one developers?

No, the grammar's OK. "One" here refers back to the most recent noun, "project", so the meaning is "and hopefully (a project) game developers will appreciate"

dammit, it would be so much easier to figure out if it was in my native lang...

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Quoting: peta77

Quoting: elmapul"- SteamOS will have a read-only immutable main filesystem by default. Updates will be distributed as a whole image and so it will replace it. There will also be a developer mode to let you modify the filesystem."

that is the part i dont get...
how they plan to allow people to install stuff then?
i mean, either you will have to rely on stuff that dont mess with the filesystem (eg: flatpaks, app images) stuff that dont install, update or remove dependences.
or you have to use developer mode to install anything that is not on steam.

well, if you compare it to a real linux desktop it's definitely not understable... but in the end this is a mobile console, so valve wants to make sure the environment is in a state devs can rely upon, so they can be sure that what was tested in their lab behaves the same way for the users... just like playstation and others...
i also want to install additional stuff to use it partially as a small laptop, but i'm fine with appimage (don't like flatpak) as long as they keep their system updated in a reasonable cycle with most recent security fixes, etc.
hopefully there will be more projects releasing appimage version so one can directly use that on the steam deck... but i'd rather prefer having some community repository/-ies (like packman) included in steamos or be able to add that to the system... would make it much more usable and easier to use...

i can understand the point, its just that i dont remember installing something on windows and breaking some unrelated stuff.

the aproach of duplicate libraries for each program was seen as an issue on the linux comunity, but at least it never had the issue of some other program demanding to update the library, then breaking an software that had nothing to do with it.

as for app images, flatpaks etc, they all have some issues integrating with my system.
eg: libre office bibliography database may be a niche feature, but holy shit, this thing dont even works here! is there any one testing this thing?

i have 2 versions of retro arch and vlc installed due to an bug that i dont remember what it was nor know if its fixed already, and every time i open vlc i dont know if im using the correct version or the version who will cause me problem someday.
(i think one feature was only working on the flatpak other in the snap or something like that)

not to mention that if the user customize something like the theme, some of those formats will ignore any customization...

sandboxing is good for security and ensuring that stuff will not break on updates, sometimes the native .deb /.rpm/etc is the best version currently avaliable for the program.

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Quoting: soulsourceand the Gentoo team keeps releasing new levels for it. :grin:)

LOL

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"- SteamOS will have a read-only immutable main filesystem by default. Updates will be distributed as a whole image and so it will replace it. There will also be a developer mode to let you modify the filesystem."

that is the part i dont get...
how they plan to allow people to install stuff then?
i mean, either you will have to rely on stuff that dont mess with the filesystem (eg: flatpaks, app images) stuff that dont install, update or remove dependences.
or you have to use developer mode to install anything that is not on steam.

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Quoting: whizse

Quoting: elmapulvalve said they aim to make every game run on steam deck, but there are still 3000 open issues on proton github, some of then are 2 years old (the same age as proton, so they might be even older issues that existed on wine)

That's not a very good metric. Bug reports are per game, and people are encouraged to report games that work without issues too, so that list will grow and grow.

Most of the closed bugs are duplicate reports.

that is a good metric because i see the numbers a lot of times to see if they changed.
the number of bugs being closed isnt changing too fast, unlike the number of new bugs being reported.
sure, people can open a bug report to report that something is working fine, but even if we filter out those (white list request) there are still too many bugs.

and if there are many duplicate reports, then the tag duplicate would be full of entries, unless no one is looking at this.

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Quoting: CatKiller

Quoting: elmapulso let me get that straight...
they cant produce enough steam deck devices to cover the needs of developers who want to develop for then...
but they expect to produce enough devices to the people who want to buy then?
there are 50.000 games on steam, and considering some devs made more than 1 game, less than 50.000 developers/publishers, i can understand that big companies that need tons of developers to make/port their games are an priority, but how many devices is valve producing?

They don't charge developers for dev kits; they do charge customers for retail units, and they've essentially sold two years' supply already. If they cannibalise their retail units to send to devs, they're costing themselves $400 a pop and making their customers (who also give them money for games) unhappy. They had intended to have a second batch of dev kits available by this point, but there's a component shortage on at the moment, so they're giving some information so that devs can make do.

400 include cost of production (and i guess shipping?) i dont know if its subsidized as consoles are to make a profit on games sold.
i dont know, i just think valve investment is too small.

• Nintendo paid 1 billion to unity to support their platforms a few years ago


• google paid capcom 10 millions to port Resident Evil 7 and 8


• valve on the other hand seem to expect developers to support their platform for free, while they have an umproven track record on hardware compared to others


• we were praising valve for hiring 1~2 developers to write/improve an driver while modern games take up to 1500 developers to be produced and sometimes windows get drivers specific for an game


• valve said they aim to make every game run on steam deck, but there are still 3000 open issues on proton github, some of then are 2 years old (the same age as proton, so they might be even older issues that existed on wine)


• valve missed the critical window to relase it that is the end of the year, they will have to wait another year to sell as much as they could

its just seem that valve dont know how much money they need to invest to make this product reach it full potential, and they are orders of magnitude below what they need.
i hope this can sell at least as much as the first xbox, so we might have an second chance next gen, but at this rate microsoft will enter the portable pc market before steamOS can make any dent, and they will compensate any performance loss of windows with an better hardware.

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