Ha, I would rather have Steam on my Atari VCS. Has every other streaming thing on there.

I don't like giving any money to google...

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Quoting: Redface

Quoting: slaapliedje

Quoting: Anza

Quoting: RedfaceSee https://lists.debian.org/debian-devel-announce/2021/06/msg00000.html [External Link] for the full freeze announcement of Buster which links to https://release.debian.org/bullseye/freeze_policy.html#full [External Link]

No changes in unstable that are not targeted for bullseye

Don't upload changes to unstable that are not targeted for bullseye. Having changes in unstable that are not targeted/appropriate for bullseye could complicate fixes for your package and related packages (like dependencies and reverse dependencies).

That means while sid/unstable is not technically frozen there are almost no newer versions during that time, mostly bugfixes, and newer versions only as exception.

I was reading the same document earlier and missed that part. So Debian testing and unstable are more of a rolling release with hiccups about every two years or so.

Basically. Every 6 months, Ubuntu snags a snapshot from Debian and tweaks the stuff and tries to stabilize it and then does a release.

This is just as wrong as: About every 2 years Debian snags a snapshot from sid and tweaks the stuff and tries to stabilize it and then does a release.

A snapshot is a moment in time, not a continuous flow of packages from sid to testing in Debian case, or a continuous flow of packages from sid (and sometimes experimental when sid is to old, like during a testing freeze) to Ubuntu development repositories.

We already had this discussion earlier in https://www.gamingonlinux.com/2021/08/debian-11-qbullseyeq-is-officially-out-now/comment_id=209308 where you had a lot of misunderstandings about Ubuntu where I explained with documentation how it is actually. Including that the automatic flow of packages from sid to Ubuntu devel is something that is turned on and off depending on the development schedule.

You just switched topic to something else inaccurate, until you suggested that a computer automation is something that just is, and can not be turned off by humans, like if computers where power by magic and fairies instead of mathematics and physics: https://www.gamingonlinux.com/2021/08/debian-11-qbullseyeq-is-officially-out-now/comment_id=209696

Uhm... pretty sure it isn't a choice at the moment, it's literally automated.

I just gave up on feeding the troll at that part.

Quoting: slaapliedjeI just stick with Debian Sid as everytime I have strayed, I have not been happy. Unless I require stable (like on servers) then I stick to the Stable branch of Debian.

That is great, use what ever works and you like the most. But why do you have the urge to spread misinformation about other distributions?

Quoting: slaapliedjExcept that Ubuntu now wants you to use snaps instead of .debs.

A few packages are only available as snap and not deb anymore where they where available as deb before.
For 22.04 this will from what we know now be Ubuntu Software and Firefox from packages installed as default, and some more optional where Chromium is probably the most well known example.

But you make it sound like it goes for all packages. There are only the 2 mentioned snaps installed as enduser applications, and they pull in some dependencies like core20 for the core libraries and gnome libraries and gtk-themes, so under 10 snaps over all. And around 1800 deb packages installed, which is that high because many projects are packaged in a way that the source package builds a lot of binary packages.

So all around its like 99.5% of packages installed from a default desktop are deb, and 0.5% are snaps, if you count all the dependency packages as well.

But yeah, Ubuntu is all about snaps now:-) Furthermore you can still just remove all snaps and find alternatives elsewhere.

None of what you showed shows it is any different to what I said except different words. They still get their base debs built because of Debian. I have known about Ubuntu before it was even released. What I said is exactly how they used to do it, and from everything I have seen, it has not changed.

I am not trolling at all, you somehow interpret things differently than I do.

Debian doesn't take a snapshot for development.. they roll in Sid and if a package doesn't have a reported bug in 10 days, it gets shifted to Testing (assuming dependencies are still working). Then before release they do a soft freeze, and try to eliminate bugs, while holding back new versions unless exceptions are made.

Then they will do a hard freeze where it is bug crunch time. But they release when ready (isn't even a full 2 years always).

Ububtu is only remotely stable due to the greatness of Debian.

When Ubuntu is modifying apt to install Chromium via snap... they are wanting people to use snaps. Can't really argue against that... if they had the man power, I bet all of it but the core would be a snap package. The other 95% of packages are basically built by debian maintainers.

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I need Conan Exiles support... people say it is working, but it stopped after they updated their launcher for me.

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Quoting: Purple Library Guy

Quoting: slaapliedje

Quoting: Guest

Quoting: Nocifer

Quoting: Guestto Capcom this isn't GNU/Linux, this is something closer to Just Another Console(tm).

And that's more than fine for the time being. Every journey begins with a first step, does it not? At this point all we really want and all we can really ask for is that games can run in an easy and competitive (performance-wise) manner on Linux, so that PC users aren't forced to use Windows if they want to also play games; and the Steam Deck's success will facilitate that. If and when this success becomes a reality, then we can start asking for more.

Sames arguments were made for Stadia too.

The Deck might differ if people are convinced to use the desktop mode, but phones have had exactly that and it's changed nothing. There's just no incentive that I can see.
Purely guesswork on all our parts of course, but I'm going with it won't change anything on the desktop.

How will this not change anything on the desktop? Will it bring more users to use Desktop Linux? Probably not. Will it bring more games that are playable on Desktop Linux? 100% it will, as it's using the exact same software on the Deck. That's where Stadia was garbage, it's all hidden on Google's servers, never to be seen by us 'normies'.

Google in general seem to be very good at making use of Linux in ways that you would think would be good for Linux more generally, but managing to avoid letting that happen. I don't know if they have some reason to want to do that or if it's just by accident, but so far they've been pretty consistent about it.

Proof is in the fact that they have a Google Linux (Android), that is incompatible with normal Lunix distributions. Then people complained, so they created yet another Google Linux (ChromeOS) that qlso is incompatible with normal Linux distributions. They added some stuff to run normal apps, but it is still a closed system. Google has basically become experts at taking Linux and closing it off for their own purposes.

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Quoting: CatKiller

Quoting: whizseI'm not sure why they even bothered with the 64GB Deck version.

$399 price point headlines & if you use it like a Switch 64 GB internal is plenty.

Yeah, not to mention the Atari VCS came with only 32gb, and there are plenty of small Indy games perfect for both systems.

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PS3 games are rather huge... I have one of the few bluray drives that will read them. I am pretty sure Red Dead Redemption was like 45gb? I would have to look again. But they can be up to 50gb in size, which would eat up the Steam Deck's storage real fast! Though I suppose getting a 1 or 2tb microsd will fix that.

PS3 emulation also requires a beastly processor. It isn't like the PS4, which is a similar CPU to the one in the Deck.

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Quoting: Redface

Quoting: slaapliedje

Quoting: Anza

Quoting: RedfaceNah, that is Debian, the Ubuntu development version, currently Jammy Jellyfish to be released as 20.04, does come close to a rolling release, but its like Debian testing and unstable affected by freezes, so its not really rolling, but close.

You can also use devel instead of the codename, devel is kind of a symlink to the current development repositories.

At least according to documentation, Debian unstable (aka. sid) is not subject to freezes. Testing is subject to freezes, so rolling stops for a while (shouldn't called testing rolling release as because of that it's not really one).

However as mentioned, there are other distributions out there that do rolling releases. Those are quickest way to fix the problem instead of waiting Canonical to implement true rolling release. Debian is the most familiar for Ubuntu users, Arch is doing bit of its own thing with AUR and all (which is not bad thing at all).

Debian Sid is basically a rolling release. There is usually a bit of a hiccup during the freeze of testing, but it isn't very long. But there is also a period of 'unrest' right after a new stable version is released. This is due to a ton of new packages and version bumps that flood into Sid. Historically there can be pretty nasty breakages during this point. But as long as you use upgrade, and not dist-upgrade, it is fine.

Yeah, and from a user standpoint its the same when running the Ubuntu development release and then after release immediately going to the next, or by tracking devel in the first place.

Except that Ubuntu now wants you to use snaps instead of .debs.

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Quoting: Anza

Quoting: RedfaceSee https://lists.debian.org/debian-devel-announce/2021/06/msg00000.html [External Link] for the full freeze announcement of Buster which links to https://release.debian.org/bullseye/freeze_policy.html#full [External Link]

No changes in unstable that are not targeted for bullseye

Don't upload changes to unstable that are not targeted for bullseye. Having changes in unstable that are not targeted/appropriate for bullseye could complicate fixes for your package and related packages (like dependencies and reverse dependencies).

That means while sid/unstable is not technically frozen there are almost no newer versions during that time, mostly bugfixes, and newer versions only as exception.

I was reading the same document earlier and missed that part. So Debian testing and unstable are more of a rolling release with hiccups about every two years or so.

Basically. Every 6 months, Ubuntu snags a snapshot from Debian and tweaks the stuff and tries to stabilize it and then does a release.
I just stick with Debian Sid as everytime I have strayed, I have not been happy. Unless I require stable (like on servers) then I stick to the Stable branch of Debian.

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Quoting: Anza

Quoting: RedfaceNah, that is Debian, the Ubuntu development version, currently Jammy Jellyfish to be released as 20.04, does come close to a rolling release, but its like Debian testing and unstable affected by freezes, so its not really rolling, but close.

You can also use devel instead of the codename, devel is kind of a symlink to the current development repositories.

At least according to documentation, Debian unstable (aka. sid) is not subject to freezes. Testing is subject to freezes, so rolling stops for a while (shouldn't called testing rolling release as because of that it's not really one).

However as mentioned, there are other distributions out there that do rolling releases. Those are quickest way to fix the problem instead of waiting Canonical to implement true rolling release. Debian is the most familiar for Ubuntu users, Arch is doing bit of its own thing with AUR and all (which is not bad thing at all).

Debian Sid is basically a rolling release. There is usually a bit of a hiccup during the freeze of testing, but it isn't very long. But there is also a period of 'unrest' right after a new stable version is released. This is due to a ton of new packages and version bumps that flood into Sid. Historically there can be pretty nasty breakages during this point. But as long as you use upgrade, and not dist-upgrade, it is fine.

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Quoting: Redface

Quoting: Anza

Quoting: ElectricPrismMAKE A ROLLING RELEASE UBUNTU VARIANT

It kind of exists, it's called Debian. You just need to enable the testing (or sid) repositories.

Nah, that is Debian, the Ubuntu development version, currently Jammy Jellyfish to be released as 20.04, does come close to a rolling release, but its like Debian testing and unstable affected by freezes, so its not really rolling, but close.

You can also use devel instead of the codename, devel is kind of a symlink to the current development repositories.

Ubuntu just isn't good...
erm, good for a rolling release. There isn't any point, really. It has a release every 6 months. And unless your particular pieces of software you use are actually directly in the Debian repositories, they aren't likely to be updated fast enough to bother any quicker than that anyhow. And even then sometimes you likely don't want it to be that quick. Sure there are times when it's nice.

Really if you want a rolling release where you always have latest/greatest (or pretty damned close) Arch is the way to go.

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