Quoting: GuestAs debain rarely updates overall and probably not changing any major kernel version until the next big release and even that will run some older Kernel it is obvious it is "more stable" with nvidia drivers. But that also applies to any point release be it Debian, Ubuntu, openSUSE Leap or others.

Even once stable, Debian now officially supports the debian-backports repositories (as discussed in this thread). In which newer kernels and nvidia-drivers are available. Good thing, as while nvidia usually is pretty great at supporting their old cards, you never know if they'll change their minds...

(side note, I'm responding to this in Windows 10 as I needed to do some work in it, and holy crap the fonts look like crap!)

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Quoting: GalaedriaMy first experience with Linux was in the 1990s - I was a teenager (started a GW-Basic programming club at my all-girl high school) and I loved the idea of freely sharing code and working together to improve technology; my Dad had a client whose son was studying IT who got me a copy of either Red Hat or Fedora. It came on 16 CDROMs and it took me something like 8 hours to install all of them (had to stop and start several times because of missing dependencies on another CDROM that hadn't been installed yet) and when I finally got to boot up into Linux for my first time, it didn't recognise my keyboard! Had to reinstall Windows so I could use my computer. It took 20 years of trying various distributions that either didn't work for me or weren't very user-friendly but I finally became a full-time Linux user (including for gaming) about 5 years ago when I tried Linux Mint and I still love the Linux philosophy and I'm trying to convince my friends and family to give it a go.

Ha, if it were the 90s it wasn't Fedora, would have been Red Hat. Probably was either all the source code, or floppies if it were that many discs.
Speaking of... 5 floppy install of old Debian was always fun!

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Quoting: furaxhornyx

Quoting: slaapliedje

Quoting: furaxhornyx

Quoting: slaapliedje[...]

Anyhow, the AUR is still questionable in my mind, and even the Arch devs don't readily recommend it. So if you're going to use AUR, keep it to a minimum, it's far too easy for malware to be installed on your system with it. Also the packages get orphaned randomly when people decide they don't want to keep maintaining the PKGBUILD. The fortunate part is the PKGBUILDs are simple and most should be able to read / write them.

Yes, I know, but from my understanding, the same is true with PPA, for example.
And without AUR:

• No easy Skype


• No easy DaVinci Resolve


• No easy Mangohud / GOVerlay


• No easy Heroic Game Launcher / Gamehub


• No easy Blender / Phoronix benchmarks

And of course a lot other useful tools that are equivalent to what I had in windows, with the same ease of installation / removal

Seriously, if I had to manually install / compile each of those, I would probably be using Windows 10 by now...

1) is in Flatpak/flathub
2) DaVinci Resolve asks for a registration; so how is AUR doing it?
3) I'm surprised GOVerlay hasn't at least been packaged as a binary.
4) I won't support Epic :P
5) Blender has easy install. Phoronix should really package their stuff for ARCH.

Nice to know, because when I was looking for a distro, most were dealing with added PPA. Also, I don't think flatpak was installed by default, but maybe I overlooked this.
Also, I don't remember exactly the registration process for DaVinci, since I installed it a while ago, just to check the compatibility, but never actually used it. It was the free version.
And for Blender, I was speaking about the Blender benchmark, Blender itself is in the official repository. Sorry for the confusion.

Quoting: slaapliedjeBut yeah, do you check the PKGBUILDs for custom patches every time you install it? Because it'd be real easy for someone to insert malicious code this way into anything. This is why there is always the warning for AUR. Doesn't mean it's a terrible idea and shouldn't be used, just be careful with them.

I try to, when I install a new AUR, but I can only check a few things, I don't know all the details in the script langage (whatever is used). But the same applies to most programs on the Internet (when you come from Windows, for example).
Also, how can you be sure that the software in a PPA / Flatpak is not malicious as well ?

Bottom line being, Internet is dangerous

Yeah, exactly. I mean software is software... It's just some places (like PPAs / AUR) are a little easier to slip things in. Flatpak is less so, as most of the packages on there (not all of course) are from the upstream authors themselves (so they hopefully are less likely to muck things up for people). AURs very often have some sort of patch, so that's really what you want to look at. The PKGBUILD will list what tarballs are being downloaded and from where, so are usually easy to spot if someone is planning something naughty. Then there are the patches, which of course not all are technical enough to read. Generally if there are code patches, I stay away from those.

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Quoting: Solitary

Quoting: psyminProtonDB reports from the past couple days say it is "platinum"

https://www.protondb.com/app/1549970

Platinum doesn't really mean much anymore, Psychonauts 2 also have it even though it has media foundation issues and you need to tinker.

Yeah, this is what I mean by it needs to be cleaned up.

Platinum = Zero scripts or launch changes, it just plain works, from clicking install, to download to the play button. Works 'out of the box' and is as stable as the release on Windows.
Gold = Works flawlessly, but requires some manipulation to get it to work (like some script, or changing the case of files, etc. Once tweaked, it works fine.)
Silver = Works, is playable, but has missing features (like anti-cheat?). I tend to think graphical options as features. Though sadly this also sometimes is where native games are rated...
Bronze = Works, but with issues. Graphical glitches, crashes to desktop, etc.
Copper = installs, may launch, but is pretty trash experience.
Dog Poo = Looks like it, and smells like it. Please clean up after your pets, no one likes stepping onto their lawn and finding a surprise.

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Quoting: WorMzy

Quoting: slaapliedjeProbably because I didn't notice until I had told it to restart the computer because I was going to do something in Debian, and it compiles to a temp dir.

In that case, either set PKGDEST (see 'man makepkg.conf'), or stop compiling in tmpdirs.

ha, just using whatever Yay was set to. Why does Arch abandon so many frontends to AUR? I've gone through like 4? Arch isn't my primary OS (That'd be Debian) I just use it to play with random new things. So yeah I use AUR, but it does annoy me occasionally :P

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Quoting: furaxhornyx

Quoting: slaapliedje[...]

Anyhow, the AUR is still questionable in my mind, and even the Arch devs don't readily recommend it. So if you're going to use AUR, keep it to a minimum, it's far too easy for malware to be installed on your system with it. Also the packages get orphaned randomly when people decide they don't want to keep maintaining the PKGBUILD. The fortunate part is the PKGBUILDs are simple and most should be able to read / write them.

Yes, I know, but from my understanding, the same is true with PPA, for example.
And without AUR:

• No easy Skype


• No easy DaVinci Resolve


• No easy Mangohud / GOVerlay


• No easy Heroic Game Launcher / Gamehub


• No easy Blender / Phoronix benchmarks

And of course a lot other useful tools that are equivalent to what I had in windows, with the same ease of installation / removal

Seriously, if I had to manually install / compile each of those, I would probably be using Windows 10 by now...

1) is in Flatpak/flathub
2) DaVinci Resolve asks for a registration; so how is AUR doing it?
3) I'm surprised GOVerlay hasn't at least been packaged as a binary.
4) I won't support Epic :P
5) Blender has easy install. Phoronix should really package their stuff for ARCH.

But yeah, do you check the PKGBUILDs for custom patches every time you install it? Because it'd be real easy for someone to insert malicious code this way into anything. This is why there is always the warning for AUR. Doesn't mean it's a terrible idea and shouldn't be used, just be careful with them.

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Quoting: WorMzy

Quoting: slaapliedje2) it took so long to compile still, and I was doing other things, that it then prompted me for the sudo password, as enough time had gone by where it'd need to be re-authenticated. Problem was, I didn't notice it prompting for a while, and it gave up. Guess what that means? I get to recompile Librewolf again...

Why on earth would you have to recompile it again just because the sudo prompt timed out? Just install the built package with `pacman -U`.

Incidentally, consider setting `passwd_timeout` in your sudoer defaults if you find the default 5m timeout too short. A value of 0 disables the timeout.

Probably because I didn't notice until I had told it to restart the computer because I was going to do something in Debian, and it compiles to a temp dir.

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Quoting: whizse

Quoting: slaapliedjeI hate to be 'that guy', but I think what Linux needs, and I know this is a gaming site, but for it to truly be something people migrate toward, we need a 'killer app' that is only available on Linux,

Microsoft learned their lesson from Wine and would just WSL that killer app in a heartbeat!

Ha, WSL is both how I have to work currently and also my nemesis. WSL2 is supposed to be faster (because they gave up on trying to make it perform on top of the Windows kernel and just use a hypervisor) but it also does not play well with VPNs... moment I connect, I lose all networking, and damned if I have time to figure that out!

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Quoting: F.Ultra

Quoting: slaapliedje

Quoting: F.Ultra

Quoting: TheBardI'm really sad for the people at Feral. They did a wonderful job with all their ports. They made among the best native ports and their support is excellent. I only had to contact the support once. They managed to find that my keyboard was making the game crash. I don't even understand now how they were able to find it but they were right.

But the next step for Linux gaming is definitely Proton so I guess we will see lesser and lesser native ports. Maybe if the Steam Deck becomes a massive success and the next version Proton's compatibility isn't perfect, then native ports may become a thing again.

I'm quite sure that native ports or rather native versions from the ground up will be a thing again. We are now in the middleground where things like proton is good enough but the userbase is still too small, at some point IF our userbase raises then some publisher will move away from being dependent on a 3d party (proton) to be in better control of their own software as well as being able to push things to their technical limits.

The huge problem with native ports now is not really proton, it's the fact that our userbase is still so small. Proton just made it more apparent/transparent.

I hate to be 'that guy', but I think what Linux needs, and I know this is a gaming site, but for it to truly be something people migrate toward, we need a 'killer app' that is only available on Linux, or is somehow gimped by being used on other platforms. Unfortunately (fortunately?) due to most software being 'good enough' to cover the bases, and being open source, means that even if we did get a superior program for whatever, it'd just be ported over and people could remain on whatever non-Linux desktop they use.

1) Great usability? Check!
2) Simplified software installs and updates? Check!
3) Game compatibility or native? Check!
4) Cost of ownership? Check!
5) Reason why people should learn something new, even one program that requires Linux/GTK/QT/Xorg/Wayland? ...

One of Linux's greatest strength is also it's greatest weakness. While I agree with Valve, and say that exclusives are terrible, after all the hardware is all the same and can run the same software. It is the reason people buy a PS5 over an xbox-whatever. Halo fan? You buy an Xbox. God of War? Playstation. You want to run Final Cut? You buy a Mac. You don't know what you want to run yet? You end up with Windows...

Well you are not wrong, once upon a time Apache/MySQL/PHP was the killer app that turned basically every server into a Linux server.

The desktop is hard though, Microsoft fought hard and dirty to get their monopoly and once you get there, alternatives are near impossible to make a dent since you will be the "strange kid", and there will always be some small thing with "this word documents does not really work", "this Photoshop plugin does not work" to keep the majority at bay. At work every one exuding the sales team use elusively Linux on our desktops/laptops because sales have to exchange documents with customers and prospects and they are always in some .doc or .docx.

Not to mention that there are no pre-installed Linux machines for purchase in stores where people en masse does their purchases. Which also means that there are no company drive behind Linux, and this I have written about before, in where a publisher with a big AAA title will be given free marketing, a huge spotlight on conferences and paid interviews by the likes of Nintendo, Sony or Microsoft while zero of that exists for Linux so there are no marketing incentive to make a Linux port either, you will get zero airtime for doing that.

We will see though how well the Steam Deck will play out, if they manage to actually solve all the problems with EAC et al and have close to every single steam game playable in Proton AND releases SteamOS3 with those changes AND does so before W11 gets out of preview then at least there is a high chance that some portion of gamers will make the jump (W11 obseletes a lot of working hardware and places like Linus Tech Tips are talking more and more about Linux as a possible alternative).

This is where it sucks that one is not as rich as Bezos or Musk to pour into the development of some Linux exclusive killer apps or games. I know that we normally does not look too kindly at exclusives but then again Linux is both open and free so any one can dual boot and is therefore not excluded from the exclusive :)

Well, here's the question I think; How many people walk into a store these days to pick up a laptop, if they haven't already been kind of looking? ChromeOS ones are the only ones really priced in the spontaneous buy category. Most people know they either want a Mac... or a not Mac. If System76 or others could manage to get their systems into Best Buy / Wal-Mart I wonder how much their sales would actually go up? Doesn't help that there isn't a large range of them, they are usually mid-high to high end systems.

Now if we could get someone like Lenovo to stop making systems that are difficult to get Linux onto, and then selling systems that were low-high end stuff that had the Linux option, and then displaying the various options in the store, maybe there would be more sales for it. Imagine a world where you walk into Wal-mart and see Windows 10 next to KDE or Gnome? Would that finally be 'year of desktop Linux?'

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Quoting: F.Ultra

Quoting: TheBardI'm really sad for the people at Feral. They did a wonderful job with all their ports. They made among the best native ports and their support is excellent. I only had to contact the support once. They managed to find that my keyboard was making the game crash. I don't even understand now how they were able to find it but they were right.

But the next step for Linux gaming is definitely Proton so I guess we will see lesser and lesser native ports. Maybe if the Steam Deck becomes a massive success and the next version Proton's compatibility isn't perfect, then native ports may become a thing again.

I'm quite sure that native ports or rather native versions from the ground up will be a thing again. We are now in the middleground where things like proton is good enough but the userbase is still too small, at some point IF our userbase raises then some publisher will move away from being dependent on a 3d party (proton) to be in better control of their own software as well as being able to push things to their technical limits.

The huge problem with native ports now is not really proton, it's the fact that our userbase is still so small. Proton just made it more apparent/transparent.

I hate to be 'that guy', but I think what Linux needs, and I know this is a gaming site, but for it to truly be something people migrate toward, we need a 'killer app' that is only available on Linux, or is somehow gimped by being used on other platforms. Unfortunately (fortunately?) due to most software being 'good enough' to cover the bases, and being open source, means that even if we did get a superior program for whatever, it'd just be ported over and people could remain on whatever non-Linux desktop they use.

1) Great usability? Check!
2) Simplified software installs and updates? Check!
3) Game compatibility or native? Check!
4) Cost of ownership? Check!
5) Reason why people should learn something new, even one program that requires Linux/GTK/QT/Xorg/Wayland? ...

One of Linux's greatest strength is also it's greatest weakness. While I agree with Valve, and say that exclusives are terrible, after all the hardware is all the same and can run the same software. It is the reason people buy a PS5 over an xbox-whatever. Halo fan? You buy an Xbox. God of War? Playstation. You want to run Final Cut? You buy a Mac. You don't know what you want to run yet? You end up with Windows...

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