What an interesting development. I can see why Linux/SteamOS would be attractive to developers of handheld gaming devices because, first of all, Windows is not at all well suited for low-powered, portable hardware, and second, Linux/SteamOS is free, so no "corporate tax" to ship a device with a pre-installed operating system. And with Proton, Windows gamers will not have to give up a large chunk of their Steam library, and what games they do have to give up will be considered an acceptable trade-off because handheld gaming is almost thought of as a different genre, and people naturally do not expect to be able to play every game they can play on their desktop.

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I honestly don't have a problem with using Proton to play games that are targeted for Windows since it generally works flawlessly (and in some cases, playing through Proton offers better performance than playing a native Linux version, as counter intuitive as that might seem). What gives me pause is when developers treat Proton as an unsupported extra, where they're happy to take our money but then tell us we're on our own if we encounter any problems.

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[quote=eldarion]

Quoting: gradyvuckovicAnother point is that noboddy will seriously think on doing games specifically for steam deck because it will limit you in terms of sales.

Well, sure, if you mde a game that could only run on the Steam Deck, but I'm not sure that sort of exclusivity is even possible.

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I doubt that Valve initiated contact with these guys asking them to put SteamOS on their product.

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My son loves minimalist keyboards like this, but I personally can't stand them. Give me my full 104-key monstronsity any day!

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Quoting: tuubi

Quoting: Mountain Man

Quoting: tuubi

Quoting: Mountain ManGames bought in Linux and played in Proton are logged in Steam as a Linux sale, so people refusing to buy any game that requires Proton are, at least theoretically, directly harming Linux.

So if I choose to buy a native Linux game instead of a Windows game, how exactly am I harming Linux? Please explain. Nothing theoretical about this, it happens regularly.

It reduces the number of Linux sales for certain titles, which tells those developers that they were right to not support Linux directly. That's the exact opposite of what we want.

So let me get this straight: If a developer actually puts out a Linux native game that I'm interested in, I should definitely not buy it. Instead, I should buy some Windows game in the hopes that the developer might notice us and maybe support Linux in the future.

Do you perhaps see how this might confuse a simple penguin? Seems almost backwards, to put it mildly. To me it's pretty clear that buying a Windows game does less to help Linux gaming than actually buying Linux games.

I said nothing of the sort.

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Quoting: Purple Library Guy

Quoting: Mountain Man

Quoting: Purple Library Guy

Quoting: Mountain Man

Quoting: Purple Library Guy

Quoting: kuhpunkt

Quoting: GuestWindows only, shame... When i saw the trailer it looked like a nice game.

Why is it a shame?

Are you asking that because you don't know the person's answer or because you do know and you're waiting for their reply so you can give them a hard time?
Proton is great, but I don't think there's any point to razzing people for preferring Linux native.

The reality is, Proton is a perfectly viable option for Linux gamers that, in many cases, gives native-like performance and grants access to hundreds of games we would otherwise never get to play on our operating system of choice. It's also a reality that even if every single Linux gamer boycotted every game that didn't offer native Linux support, it would not compel a single developer to suddenly produce a Linux version to take advantage of what is, by all accounts, a negligible sliver of the market. I wish it weren't it so, but those are the facts.

So, in the end, refusing to buy a promising game because it can only be played in Proton reminds me of the adage about cutting off your nose to spite your face.

So?
Some people preferring native Linux purchases is still incrementally more motivation to go native Linux than no people holding that preference. And it certainly doesn't do you any harm if someone else has that courage of their convictions. It will either have no effect or a positive effect, but there is no way it can have a negative effect. And if the whole Linux gaming community grows, and the "native strongly preferred" current stays significant, when the whole reaches a certain size it will have an impact.
So why always this rush to convince people not to do it? They're not cutting off your nose.

Disclaimer: I run, and buy, almost all native games, but not mainly out of political conviction. It's just that I buy games mostly when they're mentioned on GoL and look good, and up until recently most games mentioned here were Linux native games, and I have more games than I can play anyhow, and I'm not really into the genres AAA games are usually in, and the genres I am into are well represented natively on Linux. So I've made one or two exceptions, but mostly I haven't found much point to go for non-native. But I can't claim to have been doing it largely out of political virtue.

You say there is no way that avoiding Proton can have a negative affect on Linux. I disagree. Games bought in Linux and played in Proton are logged in Steam as a Linux sale, so people refusing to buy any game that requires Proton are, at least theoretically, directly harming Linux.

No, that doesn't work. They wouldn't be buying fewer games overall, just a different distribution. And the games they do buy also count as a Linux sale, obviously.

I don't get this idea that you can only support one or the other. It's not a zero sum game. We can increase the presence of Linux across the board by supporting both native and Proton.

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Quoting: tuubi

Quoting: Mountain ManGames bought in Linux and played in Proton are logged in Steam as a Linux sale, so people refusing to buy any game that requires Proton are, at least theoretically, directly harming Linux.

So if I choose to buy a native Linux game instead of a Windows game, how exactly am I harming Linux? Please explain. Nothing theoretical about this, it happens regularly.

It reduces the number of Linux sales for certain titles, which tells those developers that they were right to not support Linux directly. That's the exact opposite of what we want.

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I haven't looked at the Steam Discovery Queue in years. For that matter, I have never gone "shopping" on Steam just randomly looking for a game to buy that I wasn't previously aware of.

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Quoting: Purple Library Guy

Quoting: Mountain Man

Quoting: Purple Library Guy

Quoting: kuhpunkt

Quoting: GuestWindows only, shame... When i saw the trailer it looked like a nice game.

Why is it a shame?

Are you asking that because you don't know the person's answer or because you do know and you're waiting for their reply so you can give them a hard time?
Proton is great, but I don't think there's any point to razzing people for preferring Linux native.

The reality is, Proton is a perfectly viable option for Linux gamers that, in many cases, gives native-like performance and grants access to hundreds of games we would otherwise never get to play on our operating system of choice. It's also a reality that even if every single Linux gamer boycotted every game that didn't offer native Linux support, it would not compel a single developer to suddenly produce a Linux version to take advantage of what is, by all accounts, a negligible sliver of the market. I wish it weren't it so, but those are the facts.

So, in the end, refusing to buy a promising game because it can only be played in Proton reminds me of the adage about cutting off your nose to spite your face.

So?
Some people preferring native Linux purchases is still incrementally more motivation to go native Linux than no people holding that preference. And it certainly doesn't do you any harm if someone else has that courage of their convictions. It will either have no effect or a positive effect, but there is no way it can have a negative effect. And if the whole Linux gaming community grows, and the "native strongly preferred" current stays significant, when the whole reaches a certain size it will have an impact.
So why always this rush to convince people not to do it? They're not cutting off your nose.

Disclaimer: I run, and buy, almost all native games, but not mainly out of political conviction. It's just that I buy games mostly when they're mentioned on GoL and look good, and up until recently most games mentioned here were Linux native games, and I have more games than I can play anyhow, and I'm not really into the genres AAA games are usually in, and the genres I am into are well represented natively on Linux. So I've made one or two exceptions, but mostly I haven't found much point to go for non-native. But I can't claim to have been doing it largely out of political virtue.

You say there is no way that avoiding Proton can have a negative affect on Linux. I disagree. Games bought in Linux and played in Proton are logged in Steam as a Linux sale, so people refusing to buy any game that requires Proton are, at least theoretically, directly harming Linux.

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