Quoting: Tuxee

Quoting: dubigrasu

Quoting: Tuxee..They have a device with a pre-installed shiny working frontend and - say - 80% of their games working. For the extra 20% which might work you have to prepare boot media, drivers, put up with no frontend designed for the device...

The Deck frontend is the BPM redesigned, which means it will be available for Windows as well.

Is this fact or just guessing? Anyway, you are viewing that from the Linux user perspective which pretty much always has been forced to install an OS and setup the system. This is something rarely ever happens to Windows users.

austinp_valve
Yes, we are replacing Big Picture with the new UI from Deck. We don't have an ETA to share yet though.

https://steamcommunity.com/groups/bigpicture/discussions/1/5167301764850695635/#c5167301764854104718 [External Link]

I haven't added any personal perspective to my comment, I just relayed a bit of information.

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While I don't dismiss what Ethan says, I'm more inclined to side with Gordon.
I think valve plays the long game here, we have a saying: befriend the devil until you cross the bridge.

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Quoting: Tuxee..They have a device with a pre-installed shiny working frontend and - say - 80% of their games working. For the extra 20% which might work you have to prepare boot media, drivers, put up with no frontend designed for the device...

The Deck frontend is the BPM redesigned, which means it will be available for Windows as well.

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Quoting: slaapliedjeOne question I have: Are they going to have a mirror of Arch that they add packages in selectively and test? Because Arch Linux, as stable as it is, still has the occasional breakage, and you end up having to go to their site and read how to fix said breakage.

They already have a "valveaur" repo. Maybe this, maybe a new one, but I'm pretty sure they'll have a dedicated repo for the Deck.
They used a dedicated repo for Debian, even though it was Debian stable, so much more so for Arch.
You can't afford to sell millions of devices to people and risk to have one messed update to screw them all.

Or maybe they'll push ready-only images for the system when necessary, having only the user folders writable, similar with ChimeraOS. They mentioned that few times.

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Quoting: F.Ultra

Quoting: dubigrasu

Quoting: CatKiller

Quoting: dubigrasuI can easily imagine that many will just strip SteamOS out of it and install Windows

I'm not sure they will. Installing an OS is a pain in the arse that most people don't do - it's one of the reasons why it's important that more vendors are pre-installing Linux. For non-gaming use cases you're not going to spend £500 on a device to use as an ebook reader or media device when there are way cheaper devices already available that will be better at those tasks (higher resolution screen, better battery life, no massive buttons), and for gaming use cases the experimental similar devices have had Windows being a detriment to the experience.

I'm pretty sure many will do that, basically almost all the Steam Machines (old and new) were stripped of SteamOS and went full Windows, the same with many Atari machines.
The poor game selection was definitely a factor for that, and hopefully it will be not the case for Steam Deck, but many gamers are enthusiast tinkerers and installing a familiar and proven OS is the least of their worries.

But those where sold to enthusiasts and they reinstall their Windows on a daily basis, the Steam Deck if successful will be sold to the masses and they will never ever try to install anything.

Doesn't change anything, even the "masses" have plenty of tinkerers willing for performance and a greater gaming library.
Look, what I basically said (in passing) is that if this device is sold (hopefully) in millions, there will be a percent of users that will install Windows on it. I don't really understand why is so hard to accept that, at least as a possibility.
Is it because the word "many" that I used? How many is "many"? If I change "many" with "some", will you guys stop the nitpicking?
And besides, that wasn't the point I was trying to make, but with an exception everybody glanced over it and got stuck on to the SteamOS wiping part.

I swear, I said many times to myself that I should stop posting, cos almost every time there's one guy that looks sideways to what I wrote and I end up arguing a point that I never actually made.

Edit: Fucking grammar.

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Quoting: Purple Library Guy

Quoting: dubigrasuI also hope that Steamos will have some unique attractive features that will discourage people even more to switch to a plain Windows. What exactly, I have no idea, but I'm sure Valve engineers can come up with something.
Gotta be something that will make users say: yeah, I could install Windows on it, but I'm gonna loose this cool feature, so I won't do it.

Well, one of the videos I watched was talking about the ability to seamlessly go from playing on your PC to continuing the same game on the Steam Deck and vice versa, by launch maybe without even saving first. That might be a feature that wouldn't work if you nuked SteamOS to put in Windows.

Yes, I think Gamers Nexus mentioned that as one of the features that might prevent people wiping SteamOS. Can't say if that is enough, but it definitely helps. Overall the advantages and the convenience of keeping SteamOS will have to outweigh by a large margin the advantages of switching to the devil they know.

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Quoting: Lofty...the entire interface is designed for the steam deck...

That's an interesting point and raises a question (I actually asked earlier):
Is the Steam Deck interface a fork of the regular build or just the very same build with a specific launch parameter?
If is just a launch parameter (like for SteamOS 2) then theoretically you could use it on regular Windows and loose nothing switching.
Or, it could be (fork or not) a Linux-only build, and that could be an incentive to keep SteamOS on the device.

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Quoting: Mohandevir

Quoting: dubigrasu

Quoting: Tuxee

Quoting: dubigrasuI hope they'll put up also a polished installer for the new SteamOS 3.0.

I can easily imagine that many will just strip SteamOS out of it and install Windows, but at the same time others might be impressed with SteamOS and tempted to install on their PC.

Why would they? Most Windows users never ever install an OS at all - that's something for the Linux crowd. In addition setting up Windows on such a fully integrated device is far from "super easy, barely an inconvenience" while OTOH you already have a shiny nice frontend running which serves the purpose perfectly. After all we are talking about a console.

I explained why a couple of posts below but suffice to say that it will happen. Already media is buzzing about "runs Linux but don't worry, you can easily install Windows on it" and is not so far fetched to believe that gamers in search of performance and a greater gaming library will go this route.
I didn't said "most" or "everyone", I said "many" which is very likely a possibility.

Edit: stupid grammar. Man, I hate this.

Quite sure that you are right. It's going to happen, but my guess is that they'll witness multiple downsides to this. Tearing/stuttering on Windows is far worse than on Linux (and probably Gamescope), for one. Windows 10 scaling is not the best on this form factor and what will be the driver support, on such a custom silicon? Some of them might decide to switch back to SteamOS, if the experience is great.

Indeed, and for that desirable eventuality we do need an easy to understand streamlined and friendly installer.
The previous SteamOS installer was kinda scary with its default (?) total nuke option. I've seen at least one instance where people lost their work/photos/etc by installing SteamOS on their drive. Their fault? Perhaps, but that should've not happen.
I also hope that Steamos will have some unique attractive features that will discourage people even more to switch to a plain Windows. What exactly, I have no idea, but I'm sure Valve engineers can come up with something.
Gotta be something that will make users say: yeah, I could install Windows on it, but I'm gonna loose this cool feature, so I won't do it.

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Quoting: psycho_driver

Quoting: dubigrasuMaybe is a bit silly, but I would love to see a "controller mode only" for this device. Basically using it for your other PC/devices, the same way as any other controller. Not talking here about streaming or anything, but just having it turned off (or some low power/standby mode) and attached to your (more powerfull) PC, instead of the SC for example.
Why, well, because its array of inputs makes it even more awesome and versatile than the Steam Controller itself. Sure, I would very much prefer a SC 2.0, if they ever make one again.

I would be surprised if this doesn't happen. They can even get clever with it and allow additional game interaction through the steam deck touchscreen when it's being used as a controller.

Wow, I didn't even thought of that, that would be even more awesome!

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What pains me a bit is that Valve is encouraging developers to just make Windows games because "they'll take care of the rest".
I like Proton/Wine as anyone else here, but I would've love to see more push for actual Linux ports.
Maybe is not yet the time to ask for this commitment from developers, but oh well...

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