Quoting: Liam Dawe

Quoting: ShabbyX

Quoting: Liam Dawe

Quoting: ShabbyXIronically, the disadvantage of Linux with Stadia is that chrome doesn't support hardware acceleration in video decoding, so Linux will have a (slightly) higher latency than windows...

What's the latest on this, I'm a bit out of touch since I use Firefox.

The latest is what I just said?

*sigh* let me be a lot more specific then: What is the latest on getting the code accepted into Chromium/Chrome to enable it the same as it is on Windows?

Compile it yourself. Or so i've heard about month ago.

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Quoting: Ehvis

Quoting: GryxxHmmm...
Guess i no longer have any excuse to not pickup first two Fallouts.

Lack of time maybe?

That's a good excuse not to play them. It is weak excuse for not buying them

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Hmmm...
Guess i no longer have any excuse to not pickup first two Fallouts.

EDIT: Is my grammar correct? My sentence feels a bit off, although i can't pinpoint what i did wrong.

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Quoting: TheSHEEEP

Quoting: Gryxx1. Mobile internet. It is not viable to redownload games in such scenario.

We're talking about desktop usage here. What does mobile internet have to do with that?
The fringe case that one is travelling and has to use tethering? Who'd download games in that scenario and not beforehand the games they want to play on the road?

Quoting: Gryxx2.It is my responsibility of course. But i wanted to show real world use case when even 2 TB are not enough.

That's an extreme case. You can always find extreme cases that make any option look worse than it would be for 99% of people 99% of the time.

Quoting: Gryxx3. I context of my previous comments i mean "It is harder for newbies to add external drives when using flatpak Steam". And as you see i focusing on scenario small SSD and secondary HDD. I don't think new user would know how to change default flatpak location, or to allow it to see main file system.

True, but that's why I was talking about something like flatpak/Snap. A more user-friendly variant of those, with a proper UI configuration tool, setup wizard, etc.
I don't like either flatpak nor Snap right now, because I think they aren't nearly as easy to use as they should be... especially if you mix them with "normal" PPA installation. Ugh *shudders*.

Quoting: Gryxx4. It is not fair, but it doesn't mean that we have to make things harder for users that can't have top rigs.

If making things easier for the majority means making it harder for a minority, then I'm all for it, as long as it is within reason. "The need of the many..."
And I consider the small bloat a Snap/flatpak-like approach would introduce absolutely reasonable.

1. Small village. No other option then LTE
2. Off topic: I Really like comment system here. I just argued over the same damn thing with another person. Glad we understand each other now :)
3. Most "Windows Gaming Rig" i sell to customers have 128 or 256 GB system SSD, and hard drive for games. I would say they could not handle setting this up theirselvses (like they do now on windows) if they were to use Flatpak. But again it comes down to point 2, witch we agree on.
4. I still prefer having choice. I'm not Ubuntu user (and i could say that i never been, despite using it from time to time), and a reason for that is that they does not give me level of freedom that i need. As to minority/majority- i don't feel comfortable to discuss that, especially in my not native language.

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1. Mobile internet. It is not viable to redownload games in such scenario.
2.It is my responsibility of course. But i wanted to show real world use case when even 2 TB are not enough.
3. I context of my previous comments i mean "It is harder for newbies to add external drives when using flatpak Steam". And as you see i focusing on scenario small SSD and secondary HDD. I don't think new user would know how to change default flatpak location, or to allow it to see main file system.
4. It is not fair, but it doesn't mean that we have to make things harder for users that can't have top rigs.

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Quoting: Nevertheless

Quoting: Gryxx

Quoting: Nevertheless

Quoting: Gryxx

Quoting: Nevertheless

Quoting: Gryxx

Quoting: Nevertheless

Quoting: Gryxx

Quoting: Nevertheless

Quoting: x_wing

Quoting: Luke_NukemI just purged all *386 libs from my install, including Steam. Then installed Steam via flatpak...

No. Issues. At. All.

But this doesn't solve HumbleBumble or GOG. Though I do seem to recall and automated GOG->flatpak creator?

And what about proton games? Do they work without problems?

I have no problems at all.

So, how you can install games to non-system drive? As i recall, flatpak Steam is isolated from the rest of OS. You cannot go out of flatpak's file system.

EDIT: Without changing location of Steam, of course. For example leave Steam (and some games) on SSD and keep rest of them on two separate HDD drives.

You can do it with a flatpak override like described here:
https://askubuntu.com/questions/1086529/how-to-give-a-flatpak-app-access-to-a-directory [External Link]

or you can mount partitions into the [edit: Steam flatpak] packages folder.

But as i said earlier in replay- you can't compare it to "native" solution. These are like 5 clicks or so, not mounting disks manually or changing flatpak permissions.

Yes, it is a container/sandbox solution. Therefore it is more complex by nature. On the other hand, in the simplest case, if your system is installed on a single big partition, there is no configuration necessary at all. In Linux Mint you install flatpak Steam via gui, and then just use it. Only adding a second Steam library on a second partition is one step more than it already is.

That is probably too hard for average user switching from Windows to Linux. And who today has one big partition? I don't see many people buying multi terabytes SSD-es. And HDD are falling out of favor, especially as system disks.

Probably true. I guess theres still room for optimization or configuration UIs, but not only with flatpaks. When I think about Nvidia driver installation and update mangement on some distros...

And that's the point.

Sorry, I edited while you were already answering! I had forgot a point to make my post clearer. But I think we generally agree that some things should be made easier to configure and understand in the future.
Still I think flatpaks are the right way in principle.

I think so. Flatpaks are great when it comes to proprietary software. But at this point Steam takes care of so many things related to gaming that isolating it hurts more then it helps. On the other hand, games as flatpaks or appimages on Steam would be totally awesome.

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Quoting: Nevertheless

Quoting: Gryxx

Quoting: Nevertheless

Quoting: Gryxx

Quoting: Nevertheless

Quoting: Gryxx

Quoting: Nevertheless

Quoting: x_wing

Quoting: Luke_NukemI just purged all *386 libs from my install, including Steam. Then installed Steam via flatpak...

No. Issues. At. All.

But this doesn't solve HumbleBumble or GOG. Though I do seem to recall and automated GOG->flatpak creator?

And what about proton games? Do they work without problems?

I have no problems at all.

So, how you can install games to non-system drive? As i recall, flatpak Steam is isolated from the rest of OS. You cannot go out of flatpak's file system.

EDIT: Without changing location of Steam, of course. For example leave Steam (and some games) on SSD and keep rest of them on two separate HDD drives.

You can do it with a flatpak override like described here:
https://askubuntu.com/questions/1086529/how-to-give-a-flatpak-app-access-to-a-directory [External Link]

or you can mount partitions into the [edit: Steam flatpak] packages folder.

But as i said earlier in replay- you can't compare it to "native" solution. These are like 5 clicks or so, not mounting disks manually or changing flatpak permissions.

Yes, it is a container/sandbox solution. Therefore it is more complex by nature. On the other hand, in the simplest case, if your system is installed on a single big partition, there is no configuration necessary at all. In Linux Mint you install flatpak Steam via gui, and then just use it. Only adding a second Steam library on a second partition is one step more than it already is.

That is probably too hard for average user switching from Windows to Linux. And who today has one big partition? I don't see many people buying multi terabytes SSD-es. And HDD are falling out of favor, especially as system disks.

Probably true. I guess theres still room for optimization or configuration UIs, but not only with flatpaks. When I think about Nvidia driver installation and update mangement on some distros...

And that's the point.

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Quoting: TheSHEEEPWhy not just use a kind of Snap or flatpak to keep those 32bit libraries around that are needed?
We're mostly talking about Steam and Wine here, both could be packaged with what they need. Sure, that means some minimal bloat, but disk space is really damn cheap (I just bought a 2 TB SSD (!!) for under 400$, so... yeah).

Or, as Canonical said in the announcement, use container technology to keep a "fresh" 32bit environment around for those applications that need it.

I just don't really see the need to keep them around in PPAs, which I think is Canonical's main point here.

I got 4 drives ~3 TB total around 98% full, while having installed 149/320 games. Every containerization would make thing more difficult for new users. And we barley reached a point when Linux gaming is not considered hard. And for the price- remember it is dependent on individual peoples income. For example, in my country you could expect to get paid around 460$ monthly, making such SSD too expensive (Even if relatively cheap per gigabyte). And that is not worst case scenario like Brazil either.

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Quoting: F.Ultra

Quoting: Gryxx

Quoting: F.Ultra

Quoting: eldaking

Quoting: F.UltraNo I didn't say that others did such stuff all the time. What I said was that in the real world companies announce their plans, then they await comments from users and partners to see how said plans will be received after which the plans are either amended or put into production.

The problem here is that the Linux fanbase decided to see the announcement of plans as a foregone conclusion and then run around screaming.

When they "announced" this years ago, did they set a date? Was it fully decided and plotted out? How much did they broadcast their intentions so that people could prepare their transition?

Or was their announcement now still just a "plan" to be discussed, despite the fact the changes takes effect in a few months?

Everyone was surprised by this because information was not communicated clearly enough and in advance enough. Yeah, we are probably overstating the impact... but this a panic Canonical created.

Here is the initial announcement from last year: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2018-May/040310.html [External Link] so it was just one year ago and not years as I first claimed (shame on me there).

edit: further research shows that they also made an announcement back in 2016: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2016-June/039420.html [External Link]

Basically, they said in 2016: "What do you think is appropriate?"
In 2018 as i understand they talk about dropping i386 images- not whole legacy 32 bit support, at least in your linked post
In 2019 we get: BANG!, you have 4 months to prepare your software/game/library for 64-bit only Ubuntu. You need 32 bit? Stay on older system until it runs out of support.
There was never a plan to migrate software. There was discussion about dropping, but until recently we had no timelines or guides how to prepare. That's not fair.

Here is a quote from the 2016 post:

18.10+:
* Stop providing i386 port
* Run legacy i386 only application in snaps / containers / virtual machines

And that is exactly what they proposed to do in the now famous 19.10 announcement. And while I agree that 4 months is a very small time frame, it's quite obvious that they consider non LTS versions to be mere testbeds and that people would remain on 18.04 for quite some time:

Q. I have 32bit 16.04 LTS / 18.04 LTS installed, what are my upgrade options?

18.04 LTS has Standard Security support until 2023. Extended Security Maintenance runs for a further 5 years until 2028. You can stick with your current installed version until then and still be safe and secure.

This should give plenty of time to migrate away from 32-bit legacy applications before the next LTS which will be available in April 2020, or the following LTS in 2022. Alternatively place the legacy application inside an 18.04 LTS i386 container, on top of a newer 64-bit installation of Ubuntu.

I think a major problem here is that many people never read that far or just thought that, well let's worry about that in 2018 and then forgot about it. This whole rally that happened now should have happened back in 2016, perhaps then we could have avoided all the name calling.

Or some other variation of above things and/or adjusted timelines.
What do you think is appropriate? Can we survey and/or somehow
validate if above would be appropriate or needs to be extended or can
be shortened?

That's not announcment. That's question. And,, beeng quite rude- Why the fuck i need to stay with old distro, that does not support recent hardware? What can i do if i want to play Steam on my Ryzen 7 3500x an RX 5000?

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Quoting: Nevertheless

Quoting: Gryxx

Quoting: Nevertheless

Quoting: Gryxx

Quoting: Nevertheless

Quoting: x_wing

Quoting: Luke_NukemI just purged all *386 libs from my install, including Steam. Then installed Steam via flatpak...

No. Issues. At. All.

But this doesn't solve HumbleBumble or GOG. Though I do seem to recall and automated GOG->flatpak creator?

And what about proton games? Do they work without problems?

I have no problems at all.

So, how you can install games to non-system drive? As i recall, flatpak Steam is isolated from the rest of OS. You cannot go out of flatpak's file system.

EDIT: Without changing location of Steam, of course. For example leave Steam (and some games) on SSD and keep rest of them on two separate HDD drives.

You can do it with a flatpak override like described here:
https://askubuntu.com/questions/1086529/how-to-give-a-flatpak-app-access-to-a-directory [External Link]

or you can mount partitions into the [edit: Steam flatpak] packages folder.

But as i said earlier in replay- you can't compare it to "native" solution. These are like 5 clicks or so, not mounting disks manually or changing flatpak permissions.

Yes, it is a container/sandbox solution. Therefore it is more complex by nature. On the other hand, in the simplest case, if your system is installed on a single big partition, there is no configuration necessary at all. In Linux Mint you install flatpak Steam via gui, and then just use it. Only adding a second Steam library on a second partition is one step more than it already is.

That is probably too hard for average user switching from Windows to Linux. And who today has one big partition? I don't see many people buying multi terabytes SSD-es. And HDD are falling out of favor, especially as system disks.

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