Quoting: Pangaea

Quoting: TuxeeReally? Showing an image of a flatpak package to prove the bloatedness of a snap? Really? (Besides I can't find a XNView snap to see whether this is different.)

Maybe read what I posted then, instead of barking up wrong trees. With bloat I always talked about the hilariously ill-named flatpaks. I have never used Snaps and don't intend to, so have no idea if these are bloated too or if the downsides are more about the Canonical lock-in.

Sorry. Yes you were mentioning flatpaks. (From my experience snaps are not exactly bloated.)

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Quoting: soulsourceThat's actually my main point of critique regarding all container formats: They delegate dependency tracking to developers, what makes it basically impossible to prevent situations in which users end up installing the same libraries over and over and over again, in different versions

It's the other way round: that's the reason why you have these containers - to have dependency compatibilty on a per-application level.

Quoting: soulsourceI fully agree however that container packages are preferable to some developer-hosted binary tar.gz. Yet, I don't see how they could be a suitable alternative to distributor-maintained traditional packages (deb, rpm,...).
I have the feeling that the ideal solution for end-users is a co-existence of containers and traditional packages, each having its own preferred use case.

I don't think that this was ever seriously disputed - even by container enthusiasts.

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Quoting: PangaeaHere is an example of what I mentioned earlier. And I've tried to install such things in the past and it did indeed take up an enormous amount of space - wildly more than the actual program does. I don't like bloatware, and you'll be hard pressed to find bigger bloat than this. Are the sticking the entire Linux OS in there or what the hell?

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Really? Showing an image of a flatpak package to prove the bloatedness of a snap? Really? (Besides I can't find a XNView snap to see whether this is different.)

Quoting: PangaeaIf you download the program from their website, the deb is ~50 MB and the AppImage ~80 MB. And this isn't even the most egregious example. I've seen +2000% as well, maybe even more. It's totally absurd. I much prefer to download from the repo, or directly, or from a PPA that I can instantly disable afterwards.

Why are you doing that? You are aware, that you can download the deb packages of a PPA without setting up the PPA.

Quoting: PangaeaSnap sounds even worse, but in different ways, so I'm very happy about Mint doing the right thing here and ensuring the safety and interests of their users. If people absolutely want snap, you can manually install the stuff.

You are aware that in Ubuntu 20.04 there is only one snap package installed ("Ubuntu Software"), that this can be replaced by the native application with a few mouse clicks, and snaps are not forced on Ubuntu users? Ubuntu users have exactly the same variety of native packages available as Mint users. Plus a snap installer and daemon which you can use or not.

Quoting: PangaeaNot the first time Canonical has done something dodgy -- and surely not the last time.

Ah yes. Another sinister conspiracy...

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Quoting: tuubi"You're not fans of a thing I like so you must be ignorant and get all your info on social media." With such a confrontative attitude, I'm sure you feel right at home on Reddit and YouTube.

(Don't know whether this targetting me, but I actually never post on YT or Reddit.)

And one of course can prefer whatever containerization or packaging solution. But it's pretty lame when the given "reasons" don't stand the simplest fact check. (Or worse spinning some idiotic conspiracy theory.)

As stated: I prefer "normal" packages, but when it comes to proprietary software snaps are just a way more handy solution than some obscure zip files. So far all my snap packages (PHPStorm, Skype, the desktop clients of Mattermost and Telegram) have worked without any issues (apart from an initial slow start), are far from "bloated" - and looking at the version numbers - get updated regularly.

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Funny. So Snaps are the new systemd. Something one can complain about endlessly, bolstered quite frequently by unfound "facts".

Quoting: PangaeaInstead of installing something that usually takes 50 MB for example, it takes 1.9 GB. Errr, no! :crazy:

Lets check this out:

My PHPStorm snap package eats up 349MB. The generic tar.gz download unpacks to nearly 900MBs. How's that? And no, there is no deb package available.

Quoting: KohlyKohlThey look awful on a 4k monitor

I don't have many snaps, but I use the aforementioned PHPStorm daily on a WQHD setup and it looks totally "native". I've also tried it on a 4k display - no problems either.

Quoting: KohlyKohlare slow to start up

Agreed. One could add that this only happens the first time. For me it is a pretty standard four seconds delay (on an SSD) - annoying for a browser, not so for an IDE.

Quoting: KohlyKohland take up way too much space.

See above. Just for verification: The snap package of Chromium eats up 157MB, synaptic tells me that the deb package occupies 219MB. (For the faint of heart: I've removed the Chromium after this check immediately.)

I've checked the snap sizes both with
 
snap info <package>
and
 
du -hcs /var/lib/snapd/snaps/*

I do use deb packages wherever they are available since I like to have everything in one place - which for me is synaptic. But I gladly prefer snap packages over some tar.gz binaries extracted somewhere without any automatic updates and self-fabricated .desktop files.
Sorry, but this snaps-are-so-evil attiude is... well, pathetic.
Seems as if systemd won't go the way of the Dodo (as opposed to Devuan) and Gnome 3 is still not dead after all those years the community needs something else to be upset about.

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Quoting: Sonata

Quoting: Tuxee

Quoting: Patola* jealous of AMD GPU owners * :dizzy:

As a both Navi10 and Navi14 owner I agree, since I seem to have strong masochistic tendencies.

I have to update my rant from last fall ( https://www.gamingonlinux.com/forum/topic/4128 ) with my most recent findings: It's nearly June now and the shit still hits the fan when you connect two displays.

Guess I'll still be sitting on my RX 580 for a bit longer and wait with the upgrade then...:dizzy:

Enjoy the fun in full detail

https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/drm/amd/-/issues/929 [External Link]
https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/drm/amd/-/issues/1133 [External Link]

As said: If you've only one display everything's fine. A stock Ubuntu 20.04 was rock stable with my 5500XT. Then I made the mistake and attached two displays... (which I have to do, since this is my working environment)

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Quoting: tuubiJust a heads up: If you're using the kisak-mesa PPA on Ubuntu or a derivative, your update manager might complain that the PPA label has changed and refuse to update. This is because kisak has added an alternative kisak-mesa stable PPA [External Link] that is more conservative with updates to new major releases and the other one [External Link] is now labeled "kisak-mesa fresh". I fixed the problem by simply removing and readding the PPA.

A "manual"
 
sudo apt update
will ask you whether you want to change the label. Answer "y" and everything's fine, too.

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Quoting: Patola* jealous of AMD GPU owners * :dizzy:

As a both Navi10 and Navi14 owner I agree, since I seem to have strong masochistic tendencies.

I have to update my rant from last fall ( https://www.gamingonlinux.com/forum/topic/4128 ) with my most recent findings: It's nearly June now and the shit still hits the fan when you connect two displays.

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"The production team is working out a plan that will launch Linux as soon as we are able."

Which translates to: Never.

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Guys, what did you expect? The first HBs were released when there was practically no Linux gaming in existence. It was sensational and the market share of the bundles by Linux users demonstrated this. Games were ported to Linux because of the bundles. Nowadays you get thousands of Linux titles and bundles, indie games frequently have same-day releases for Linux, too. With the advent of Steam and recently Proton there is just no place for Humble Indie Bundles anymore.

(And yes, they could have just left it there and skipped an anniversary bundle.)

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