Quoting: Termy

Quoting: BlackBloodRumBut then that's easier said than done when we're talking about people who may only be using Linux for the first time.

And that is exactly why i don't think its a good idea for beginner-friendly arch-derivatives to make AUR easily accessible.

Newbies may also use Arch though, don't forget arch also has the "archinstall" which can automate much of the installation. (or all of it? I'm not sure, I haven't tried it)

Arch isn't difficult to install even without it, since for the most part you can just follow the wiki, which will get you a working installation easily enough. :smile:

I myself have pointed some people to Arch who wanted to better understand the inner workings of Linux while they are also relatively new to Linux (or had not used it before). So, it is possible for someone who has an interest in the technical details, to be using Arch as their first distro, so the issue may also directly affect Arch users, not just derivatives. :-).

Although, one would hope such users have better computer common sense, so to speak.

Quoting: Termy

Quoting: BlackBloodRumThe warnings just need to be amplified a bit when it comes to third-party minimally checked stuff (whether that's a flatpak, snap, aur, whatever).

Indeed - although that problem is pretty much the same as with the 'normal' windows madness of downloading and running random .exe files that most people have internalized so well...^^

Windows is less user friendly than Linux, in my opinion. It's a royal pain in the certain end. I hate that pile of brown substance. :tongue:

Windows has been, and frankly probably always will be a mess when it comes to obtaining applications. :dizzy:

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Quoting: Termy

Quoting: BlackBloodRumAnybody using Arch, whether they are technically skilled or not, is a "real" Arch user.

That's why i put that in quotes. ;)
Like i said, i don't want to be elitist and i'm totally rooting for distros like Manjaro, EndeavourOS and the like - just not in case of the AUR.

Quoting: BlackBloodRumI know many Arch users who use Arch itself, who would not even look at the PKGBUILD before using it.

I know - that doesn't mean that that is a good thing or advisable.

Indeed, AUR is very much a "use at your own risk" kind of deal.

But then that's where general computing common sense comes in: How well do you trust the source.

The problem with AUR is, for a new user at least; is it provides a false sense of security. Unlike the regular distribution packages there is a much lower level of validation, so it is possible for AUR to have dangerous packages. Even experienced users may only check a few PKGBUILDs, found they're safe, continue to use it however neglecting to check further.

New users may ask where do I get XYZ? If it's not in the main repos, or available as a Flatpak. If it's in AUR then they'll be instructed to go get it from there. That may be the first time that user has even heard of AUR, so they'll assume it's safe, I mean people wouldn't recommend something dangerous, right?

I should be clear, I'm in agreement with you here. That is, the user should learn to check things. But then that's easier said than done when we're talking about people who may only be using Linux for the first time. The warnings just need to be amplified a bit when it comes to third-party minimally checked stuff (whether that's a flatpak, snap, aur, whatever).

(As for elitism, which distro is best etc.. let's not go there... that topic has been had far too many times, and beaten to death.)

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Quoting: TermyI don't want to sound elitist, but the concept of the AUR is fine in the context of Arch and its intended userbase. At least it's more likely that 'real' Arch users actually read and understand the PKGBUILD before installing/updating.

Anybody using Arch, whether they are technically skilled or not, is a "real" Arch user.

I know many Arch users who use Arch itself, who would not even look at the PKGBUILD before using it.

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Quoting: Purple Library Guy

Quoting: BlackBloodRum

Quoting: Linux_Rocks

Quoting: PenglingGiven how gaming typically drives adoption of technology, it's nice to see multiple talks on the subject scheduled for this event. Looking forward to hearing more!

Porn too. It's why VHS beat out Betamax. lol

And we can also thank military usage, and development, for a significant push in technology over the years :wink:

What, you mean that Arpanet thing? It'll never catch on.
Meanwhile, let's not forget the massive influence of particle physics research.

The military is heavily investing in AI, among other technologies.

For example:
https://www.defensenews.com/newsletters/2023/04/04/navy-creating-unmanned-ai-operations-hub-within-us-southern-command/ [External Link]

That combined with the history of computers in general having deep roots within military usage.

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Quoting: pleasereadthemanual

Quoting: Fester_MuddHonestly. Your handle is "pleasereadthemanual" but here you are just assuming without even bothering to google (you would have found the answer right away).

It's a joke. I'm an Arch user. I have never actually said that to anyone, and you are the first person to take offense to it in my 2 years of using this site.

You know, now that you mention it, I take offence too! It's offensive to people who read it, and then get offended because they can't read! :angry:

I suppose it could be worse, as RTFM :grin:

(This post is a joke, don't take it seriously, just trying to lighten the mood a bit.)

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Quoting: slaapliedje

Quoting: BlackBloodRumIt was inevitable. Flatpak will suffer the same too at some point.

They have their conveniences, but they will always come with this risk.

This is the second time it's happened. Flatpak actually labels stuff as unsafe if you're using the UI. I always check to see if it's made by the upstream project or not. For example, Discord flatpak is not from Discord, you should download the .deb/tar.gz from their website.

That's a recent addition.

The problem is, many people may simply ignore such warnings and use it anyway. But just like anything when it comes to technology, just use common sense and caution, you should be fine.

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Quoting: Linux_Rocks

Quoting: PenglingGiven how gaming typically drives adoption of technology, it's nice to see multiple talks on the subject scheduled for this event. Looking forward to hearing more!

Porn too. It's why VHS beat out Betamax. lol

And we can also thank military usage, and development, for a significant push in technology over the years :wink:

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It was inevitable. Flatpak will suffer the same too at some point.

They have their conveniences, but they will always come with this risk.

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Something as intrusive as that doesn't belong on Linux. In my view, there is never a legitimate reason for a game to require kernel level access, and in turn the ability to control/monitor the whole system.

It's plain intrusive and plain anti-user. People shouldn't accept such things.

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Quoting: kaiman

Quoting: BlackBloodRumWith that said, a lot of those limits weren't so much about restricting buyers, but rather restricting scalpers who would buy cheap keys from another region and then sell them on third-party websites.

I thought it was more about buying a cheap physical game in EU country A that required activation on Steam, but activation would not work in EU country B.

If the ruling would apply to digital keys, it should be perfectly fine to buy games cheaply by using a VPN service in a low-price EU country. No need for a middle man. But I don't think that's gonna fly ... not that I ever tried.

Indeed, it looks like I misunderstood it. My apologies! I wasn't following the case and skimmed the article.

As for the VPN trick, that actually doesn't work, at least not on Steam. Valve set the region pricing based on the registered address and payment methods location. So, VPN or not, you will get your payment method countries pricing.

That's why a certain store; whose name I will not mention because they don't deserve the free advertisement, sells keys on their market place platform. The keys sold are sometimes stolen, or purchased from cheaper regions, since there is no checking to verify that the third party seller obtained the keys legally.

In any case, it appears that is not what the OP/case was referring to :-)

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