Quoting: mylka

Quoting: jens

Quoting: F.UltraConsidering how quickly they managed to port Wolfenstein Youngblood to not only Linux but also ARM Linux shows that those rumours that they had DOOM running natively on Linux way back where highly likely true.

Yes exactly, having the driver ready for ARM is one thing, showing an ARM port of an AAA game is at least equally impressive (and serves indeed food for lots of rumors :)).

switch has ARM hardware and it has AAA titles all over
afaik switch runs freeBSD which is kinda linux
so i think its not that hard to make a switch ARM TITLE run on LINUX ARM

The switch port was handled by an external company though, Panic Button, the demo on Linux ARM seams to be inhouse?!

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Quoting: Mohandevir

Quoting: MayeulC

Quoting: Mohandevir

Quoting: kuhpunkt

Quoting: MohandevirWhat is making me wonder it's the fact that Microsoft and Nvidia always walked hand in hand, when it comes to gaming... What is happening?

I guess they also just want to be future proof. Nvidia is working with Valve (enabling DLSS on Proton) and Nintendo on the Switch etc.

Sure, but a PC gaming laptop powered by ARM... It's directly playing on Microsoft's turf. Or is Microsoft trying to gradually abandon the said turf? Afterall, the new Microsoft did say that they envied Google's position...

Totally unfounded and speculative from my part... And probably wrong too (more a wish than a reality). :happy:

Well, remember that nvidia wants to buy (or bought) ARM? Probably related! I'm all for it if it's good for the ecosystem, but I think that nvidia has always been a bit on the greedy side...

Just had a quick look... Windows still runs like s...t! on ARM. Probably one reason for not using it, too. Let's wish it's going to stay like this long enough for Arch to eat away at Windows market shares.

Well Microsoft's huge advantage is the enormous software catalogue, which is 100% x86, so to be able to maintain that advantage they have no other choice than go full on QEMU-type emulation and things will be slow.

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Considering how quickly they managed to port Wolfenstein Youngblood to not only Linux but also ARM Linux shows that those rumours that they had DOOM running natively on Linux way back where highly likely true.

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Quoting: Appelsin

Quoting: Tuxee

Quoting: Appelsin

Currently it's limited to United States, Canada, European Union, and the United Kingdom with more regions becoming available in 2022.

Nothing for Norway then (or Switzerland, or Iceland or Luxemburg)? Or is this just a ploy to make us join the EU?

Last time I checked Luxembourg was still part of the European Union. Did they leave in silence?

They are? Then you've just corrected a misunderstanding I've had since early school xD I though they were outside, like us. I could have sworn they've always been mentioned in the same breath as the non-EU-member-trade-agreements we have and such things. But that may have been for other reasons then. TIL something basic x)

Luxemburg is not only one of the founding members of the EU, they are also one of the 4 official capitals of EU :-)

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Quoting: LoftyDo you really think they will have 100% stability on release without bugs on 5,000+ games including all new titles released from this point onwards? I don't (nor do i think they have to).
Unless you mean the machine will have the same version of proton installed as the desktop client which given the nature of the hardware is such an obvious given i hadn't considered you were making that point.

Well they claim that this is what they aim for, I have zero expectations that they will reach 100% but I also don't think that they will have to reach 100% without bugs to not have the casual gamer throw the device away. Atleast not an a scale that matters.

And it's not an impossible goal, this is not magic and beyond the DRM-protections no game should reach into parts of Windows where WINE cannot easily replicate functionality. That WINE has not gone full 100% compatible for decades already is simply down to lack of resources (except the DRM cases, but here we have Valve claiming that they are working with the largest DRM vendors so...).

Console gaming regardless of it's Nintendo, Microsoft or Sony is not 100% bug-free either, I've experienced plenty of games that lock-up the entire console but still there is no huge movement among people to throw out their consoles.

Then of course people always treat Linux differently and to a higher standard for some reason so I'm not 100% sure of course. Microsoft can fuck people over without repercussions just like IBM of old.

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Quoting: Lofty

Quoting: F.Ultra

Quoting: Lofty

Quoting: F.Ultra

Quoting: Lofty

Quoting: F.UltraBut those where sold to enthusiasts and they reinstall their Windows on a daily basis, the Steam Deck if successful will be sold to the masses and they will never ever try to install anything.

But those are the type of people who give up on the device if things don't work and it ends up dusty in a cupboard somewhere.

Why do you think that Valve is planing to sell a defunct product?

it's not defunct. it can run windows and linux.

Then I fail to understand your original comment even less with the "if things don't work". If the device is not defunct then "things do work" so help me understand here because I'm at a total loss?!

Your missing the nuance. There was no mention that valve believed they were selling a defunct product, that was your statement. But the expectation of a typical consumer has to be managed as there will be problems along the way with compatibility.

So, this device is not 100% defunct and sold as such by valve because it doesn't run every single title that would be ridiculous. But the experience of many titles not working over time eats away at the experience. So there are those people will buy a working product and eventually give up on it (like the steam controller) if it does not meet expectations, hence end up in a cupboard dusty. Then other groups of Linux users who understand that this is a work in progress (like all valve products) and then the rest are the kind who install windows for compatibility.

i do think that the native experience from a performance standpoint maybe the best as AMD GPU drivers on windows aren't very good apparently, but that would only apply to OpenGL games. There would be more features of course on windows as users have the AMD control center and all of those kinds of goodies.

But that is under the expectation that Valve will release it with the same status as Proton / Steam for Linux is in right now. We have quotes from Valve that they expect 100% compatibility when it launches (which of course is not a pledge and perhaps just a pipe dream, but it does indicate that they are putting effort into making it actually happen).

And I don't think that the casual user will throw the box away just because some random game does not work, that is already the reality on Windows today (far from every game works on every Windows setup) and they are not throwing their windows machines away.

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Quoting: dubigrasu

Quoting: F.Ultra

Quoting: dubigrasu

Quoting: CatKiller

Quoting: dubigrasuI can easily imagine that many will just strip SteamOS out of it and install Windows

I'm not sure they will. Installing an OS is a pain in the arse that most people don't do - it's one of the reasons why it's important that more vendors are pre-installing Linux. For non-gaming use cases you're not going to spend £500 on a device to use as an ebook reader or media device when there are way cheaper devices already available that will be better at those tasks (higher resolution screen, better battery life, no massive buttons), and for gaming use cases the experimental similar devices have had Windows being a detriment to the experience.

I'm pretty sure many will do that, basically almost all the Steam Machines (old and new) were stripped of SteamOS and went full Windows, the same with many Atari machines.
The poor game selection was definitely a factor for that, and hopefully it will be not the case for Steam Deck, but many gamers are enthusiast tinkerers and installing a familiar and proven OS is the least of their worries.

But those where sold to enthusiasts and they reinstall their Windows on a daily basis, the Steam Deck if successful will be sold to the masses and they will never ever try to install anything.

Doesn't change anything, even the "masses" have plenty of tinkerers willing for performance and a greater gaming library.
Look, what I basically said (in passing) is that if this device is sold (hopefully) in millions, there will be a percent of users that will install Windows on it. I don't really understand why is so hard to accept that, at least as a possibility.
Is it because the word "many" that I used? How many is "many"? If I change "many" with "some", will you guys stop the nitpicking?
And besides, that wasn't the point I was trying to make, but with an exception everybody glanced over it and got stuck on to the SteamOS wiping part.

I swear, I said many times to myself that I should stop posting, cos almost every time there's one guy that looks sideways to what I wrote and I end up arguing a point that I never actually made.

Edit: Fucking grammar.

Sorry wasn't trying to harass you and looks like I (and probably others) misinterpreted your post, your original post read to me as "most people will just install Windows on it anyway just like they did with the SteamBoxes", but I now with your clarification understand that I misread your post completely and now I fully agree with you.

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Quoting: Purple Library Guy

Quoting: Tom BI am a Linux gamer and I know exactly what sort of compatibility to expect. A general audience won't and valve seem to be marketing this with very high expectations. I think there will be a lot of complaints unfortunately because some games inevitably won't work.

Probably, yeah.
Although . . . I mean, if I were them I'd be doing a two-pronged approach. One would be pushing general Proton improvement + anti-cheat. The other would be a team going game by game, starting with the biggest seller on Steam and working their way down. If they could get the top 100 all to Platinum by launch, while the general team had pretty good coverage below that, it might be surprising how little of what people were wanting to play would fail.

Well there is this quote from Valve: "Our goal is for every game to work by the time we ship Steam Deck". Of course it's far from a pledge but still it does indicate that they have some plan here.

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Quoting: Lofty

Quoting: F.Ultra

Quoting: Lofty

Quoting: F.UltraBut those where sold to enthusiasts and they reinstall their Windows on a daily basis, the Steam Deck if successful will be sold to the masses and they will never ever try to install anything.

But those are the type of people who give up on the device if things don't work and it ends up dusty in a cupboard somewhere.

Why do you think that Valve is planing to sell a defunct product?

it's not defunct. it can run windows and linux.

Then I fail to understand your original comment even less with the "if things don't work". If the device is not defunct then "things do work" so help me understand here because I'm at a total loss?!

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Quoting: Lofty

Quoting: F.UltraBut those where sold to enthusiasts and they reinstall their Windows on a daily basis, the Steam Deck if successful will be sold to the masses and they will never ever try to install anything.

But those are the type of people who give up on the device if things don't work and it ends up dusty in a cupboard somewhere.

Why do you think that Valve is planing to sell a defunct product?

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