Quoting: Guest

Quoting: Dolus

Quoting: Guest

Quoting: Dolus

Quoting: Guest

Quoting: Dolus

Quoting: Guest

Quoting: Dolus

Quoting: GuestWhere? I'm not seeing it. Are you referring to twitter, where there's no call to have someone removed? I see an example about what to do with reporting CoC violations, and actually someone who is trying to say that the CoC is not proper in the current form (precisely because it lacks clear guidelines about what do when the people you should report it to, are the ones you believe are violating it).

If you're referring to something else, can you please point me to it? Again, I'm not seeing anyone actually call for someone to be stopped from contributing.

Posting accurate stats on different types of sexual abuse SEVEN years ago is a COC violation, is it?

I'm sorry, you appear to be reading something other than what I wrote. Allow me to be more clear: you stated that there were now witch hunts to have people removed from contributing to the kernel, because they could now use the CoC for that purpose.

I'm saying they are not. I believe you are referring to something on twitter, and the link I believe you are referring to was a discussion (though it doesn't seem to be quite that polite) about the CoC being improper. No calls to have anyone stopped from contributing were actually in there, so...no witch hunt in that link.

Did you read the posts, it's sounding like you didn't.

I'm asking you to provide the link where it does show that someone is now being asked to "go away" and using the CoC to back that up.

Nope. The Twitter post is a former kernel maintainer (who still has connections with current maintainers) pointing out something a contributor posted seven years ago about rape statistics. And it's very interesting when you look at what Theo Ts'o works on. Drumming him out opens the door to Intel to get their hardware based randomization into the kernel, which will all but certainly be a back door.

So...no witch hunt then? No asking to have anyone stopped from contributing? Because that's exactly what you said was happening. And if it's not, then it kind of doesn't do much to backup anything else you're saying. You see, I read that twitter as someone using a personal example to showcase a problem with the CoC. Obviously there's bad blood in there, but it doesn't alter the main point. And whether you're trying to now go after that someone is also irrelevant: the point is that there are no calls to have anyone blocked.

I must admit, it actually looks like you are on a personal witch hunt. I am not suggesting you are doing so intentionally, only that it has such an appearance. I do, however, suggest you provide proper backup information to further contribute to this conversation, or else you will not get any points you're trying to make be taken seriously.

Did you not read the green hair's posts? If you did and you're saying this, you're being disingenuous.

I'm stating that you were factually wrong. Your attempts to side track from that by introducing your own personal vendetta against someone only weaken your position further.

And make you exactly what you're blaming others of being.

Personal vendetta? I've never interacted with this person. And I'm not citing any rules they've broken to get them into hot water. I DO, however, see them doing REAL harm to people making real contributions to Linux. And pardon me for not wanting Linux to end up like FreeBSD. In a death spiral.

Your language about them has been less than friendly. About someone you've never met. Who has done nothing you've described. To try validate some viewpoint that is not the current situation, and is highly unlikely to be.

And? So I'm not nice? That doesn't make me a nazi. It doesn't make me a bigot. I never even commented on anything of that nature. But out came THAT accusation. Kinda fascistic behavior there.

View this comment - View article - View full comments

So this is what the GoL community is? People that will accuse you of being a Nazi (or what passes for one these days) for not going along with what they are pushing politically? Well, if that's the way you want it...

View this comment - View article - View full comments

Quoting: Guest

Quoting: Dolus

Quoting: Guest

Quoting: Dolus

Quoting: Guest

Quoting: Dolus

Quoting: GuestWhere? I'm not seeing it. Are you referring to twitter, where there's no call to have someone removed? I see an example about what to do with reporting CoC violations, and actually someone who is trying to say that the CoC is not proper in the current form (precisely because it lacks clear guidelines about what do when the people you should report it to, are the ones you believe are violating it).

If you're referring to something else, can you please point me to it? Again, I'm not seeing anyone actually call for someone to be stopped from contributing.

Posting accurate stats on different types of sexual abuse SEVEN years ago is a COC violation, is it?

I'm sorry, you appear to be reading something other than what I wrote. Allow me to be more clear: you stated that there were now witch hunts to have people removed from contributing to the kernel, because they could now use the CoC for that purpose.

I'm saying they are not. I believe you are referring to something on twitter, and the link I believe you are referring to was a discussion (though it doesn't seem to be quite that polite) about the CoC being improper. No calls to have anyone stopped from contributing were actually in there, so...no witch hunt in that link.

Did you read the posts, it's sounding like you didn't.

I'm asking you to provide the link where it does show that someone is now being asked to "go away" and using the CoC to back that up.

Nope. The Twitter post is a former kernel maintainer (who still has connections with current maintainers) pointing out something a contributor posted seven years ago about rape statistics. And it's very interesting when you look at what Theo Ts'o works on. Drumming him out opens the door to Intel to get their hardware based randomization into the kernel, which will all but certainly be a back door.

So...no witch hunt then? No asking to have anyone stopped from contributing? Because that's exactly what you said was happening. And if it's not, then it kind of doesn't do much to backup anything else you're saying. You see, I read that twitter as someone using a personal example to showcase a problem with the CoC. Obviously there's bad blood in there, but it doesn't alter the main point. And whether you're trying to now go after that someone is also irrelevant: the point is that there are no calls to have anyone blocked.

I must admit, it actually looks like you are on a personal witch hunt. I am not suggesting you are doing so intentionally, only that it has such an appearance. I do, however, suggest you provide proper backup information to further contribute to this conversation, or else you will not get any points you're trying to make be taken seriously.

Did you not read the green hair's posts? If you did and you're saying this, you're being disingenuous.

I'm stating that you were factually wrong. Your attempts to side track from that by introducing your own personal vendetta against someone only weaken your position further.

And make you exactly what you're blaming others of being.

Personal vendetta? I've never interacted with this person. And I'm not citing any rules they've broken to get them into hot water. I DO, however, see them doing REAL harm to people making real contributions to Linux. And pardon me for not wanting Linux to end up like FreeBSD. In a death spiral.

View this comment - View article - View full comments

Quoting: TheSyldat

Quoting: Dolus

Quoting: TheSyldat

Quoting: LonsforImagine believing that a text file somehow gives more power to the maintainers that already have all the power and that its somehow a conspiracy by the ESSS YEY DOBLEUUUs in the year 2018

This just this just fucking this. As a bisexual non binary person I often hear a ton of unsavory things being thrown around. And having a tiny sheet of paper that literally doesn't do more than just say "could we not please , can we for once just not throw that kind of garbage talk around and dehumanize each others" somehow is too much ?
Sorry but no time and again I have seen that we need a CoC.

On the other hand boy oh boy is the one adopted by the Linux foundation vague as all fuck and exploitable as all hell. That on the other hand is really true. But we are tech minded people sooo raise your hands those who managed to shit out a program that worked on first try ? .... I thought as much ...

Don't confuse 'power' with 'influence'. And this CoC was designed to be abused.

Look mate I have read every single one of your responses in that comment section and maybe it ain't your intention but right now this what you made yourself sound like wether you like it or not :
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DXD3X_HU0AAwrYo.jpg [External Link]

Cute. And I bet Liam is just going to let that slide too. But it's amusing that you go right to calling me a Nazi just because I point out that this CoC isn't just about "being nice".

View this comment - View article - View full comments

Quoting: TheSyldat

Quoting: LonsforImagine believing that a text file somehow gives more power to the maintainers that already have all the power and that its somehow a conspiracy by the ESSS YEY DOBLEUUUs in the year 2018

This just this just fucking this. As a bisexual non binary person I often hear a ton of unsavory things being thrown around. And having a tiny sheet of paper that literally doesn't do more than just say "could we not please , can we for once just not throw that kind of garbage talk around and dehumanize each others" somehow is too much ?
Sorry but no time and again I have seen that we need a CoC.

On the other hand boy oh boy is the one adopted by the Linux foundation vague as all fuck and exploitable as all hell. That on the other hand is really true. But we are tech minded people sooo raise your hands those who managed to shit out a program that worked on first try ? .... I thought as much ...

Don't confuse 'power' with 'influence'. And this CoC was designed to be abused.

View this comment - View article - View full comments

Quoting: Guest

Quoting: Dolus

Quoting: Guest

Quoting: Dolus

Quoting: GuestWhere? I'm not seeing it. Are you referring to twitter, where there's no call to have someone removed? I see an example about what to do with reporting CoC violations, and actually someone who is trying to say that the CoC is not proper in the current form (precisely because it lacks clear guidelines about what do when the people you should report it to, are the ones you believe are violating it).

If you're referring to something else, can you please point me to it? Again, I'm not seeing anyone actually call for someone to be stopped from contributing.

Posting accurate stats on different types of sexual abuse SEVEN years ago is a COC violation, is it?

I'm sorry, you appear to be reading something other than what I wrote. Allow me to be more clear: you stated that there were now witch hunts to have people removed from contributing to the kernel, because they could now use the CoC for that purpose.

I'm saying they are not. I believe you are referring to something on twitter, and the link I believe you are referring to was a discussion (though it doesn't seem to be quite that polite) about the CoC being improper. No calls to have anyone stopped from contributing were actually in there, so...no witch hunt in that link.

Did you read the posts, it's sounding like you didn't.

I'm asking you to provide the link where it does show that someone is now being asked to "go away" and using the CoC to back that up.

Nope. The Twitter post is a former kernel maintainer (who still has connections with current maintainers) pointing out something a contributor posted seven years ago about rape statistics. And it's very interesting when you look at what Theo Ts'o works on. Drumming him out opens the door to Intel to get their hardware based randomization into the kernel, which will all but certainly be a back door.

So...no witch hunt then? No asking to have anyone stopped from contributing? Because that's exactly what you said was happening. And if it's not, then it kind of doesn't do much to backup anything else you're saying. You see, I read that twitter as someone using a personal example to showcase a problem with the CoC. Obviously there's bad blood in there, but it doesn't alter the main point. And whether you're trying to now go after that someone is also irrelevant: the point is that there are no calls to have anyone blocked.

I must admit, it actually looks like you are on a personal witch hunt. I am not suggesting you are doing so intentionally, only that it has such an appearance. I do, however, suggest you provide proper backup information to further contribute to this conversation, or else you will not get any points you're trying to make be taken seriously.

Did you not read the green hair's posts? If you did and you're saying this, you're being disingenuous.

View this comment - View article - View full comments

Quoting: Guest

Quoting: Dolus

Quoting: GuestWhere? I'm not seeing it. Are you referring to twitter, where there's no call to have someone removed? I see an example about what to do with reporting CoC violations, and actually someone who is trying to say that the CoC is not proper in the current form (precisely because it lacks clear guidelines about what do when the people you should report it to, are the ones you believe are violating it).

If you're referring to something else, can you please point me to it? Again, I'm not seeing anyone actually call for someone to be stopped from contributing.

Posting accurate stats on different types of sexual abuse SEVEN years ago is a COC violation, is it?

I'm sorry, you appear to be reading something other than what I wrote. Allow me to be more clear: you stated that there were now witch hunts to have people removed from contributing to the kernel, because they could now use the CoC for that purpose.

I'm saying they are not. I believe you are referring to something on twitter, and the link I believe you are referring to was a discussion (though it doesn't seem to be quite that polite) about the CoC being improper. No calls to have anyone stopped from contributing were actually in there, so...no witch hunt in that link.

I'm asking you to provide the link where it does show that someone is now being asked to "go away" and using the CoC to back that up.

Nope. The Twitter post is a former kernel maintainer (who still has connections with current maintainers) pointing out something a contributor posted seven years ago about rape statistics. And it's very interesting when you look at what Theo Ts'o works on. Drumming him out opens the door to Intel to get their hardware based randomization into the kernel, which will all but certainly be a back door.

View this comment - View article - View full comments

Hell, come to think, of it ESR and RMS would both be abused under a COC like this.

View this comment - View article - View full comments

Quoting: Guest

Quoting: Dolus

Quoting: Guest

Quoting: Dolus

Quoting: scaine

Quoting: DolusAddress this: https://twitter.com/_sagesharp_/status/1042769399596437504 [External Link]

So Sharp is stirring up controversy over Tso and here you are stirring up controversy over Sharp.

Lets cut to the chase, and not make this about Tso, Sharp or anyone else. Here's a thought experiment: would you rather have the Linux kernel built by despicable people, and stick your head in the sand about them, or would you rather have a bit of accountability, and possibly have the kernel suffer as a result?

Personally, I'm in the latter camp. I try not to stick my head in the sand about anything. People should hold Apple and Samsung accountable for Chinese worker suicide rates at Foxconn. People should boycott Starbucks and Amazon in the UK because they offshore their taxes. And people should have the opportunity to address despicable behaviour in those contributing to the kernel.

To be clear - "address", not "insta-ban". It's a process.

Here, is a little something that might blow your mind: I do not care. I do not care about a contributors sexuality, religion or political affiliation. If their contributions make Linux a better kernel, they should be allowed to contribute. That is how it should be. Instead we now have these neon haired puritans conducting witch hunts for things people posted SEVEN years ago. Shame on you for trying to justify this.

I must have missed there news - a CoC got introduced and people are now witch hunting to have people not be able to contribute to the Linux kernel? I sure can't find that happening, but perhaps you can provide links.

I already did.

Where? I'm not seeing it. Are you referring to twitter, where there's no call to have someone removed? I see an example about what to do with reporting CoC violations, and actually someone who is trying to say that the CoC is not proper in the current form (precisely because it lacks clear guidelines about what do when the people you should report it to, are the ones you believe are violating it).

If you're referring to something else, can you please point me to it? Again, I'm not seeing anyone actually call for someone to be stopped from contributing.

Posting accurate stats on different types of sexual abuse SEVEN years ago is a COC violation, is it?

View this comment - View article - View full comments

Quoting: tuubi

Quoting: Dolus

Quoting: tuubi

Quoting: anewsonPro CoC wants to change the norms around abusive behaviour and language in the kernel dev community (which goes right up to Torvalds). Con CoC is worried this empowers moderators to exclude developers who don't share their ideological views. The former goal is laudible, and the latter concern is justified (eg Johnathan Haidt's work on academia).

This CoC simply codifies the powers Linux maintainers have had all along. The "Con CoC" crowd seem to have trouble understanding this basic fact. Could be because they'd rather just keep fighting the scary SJW cabal that keeps taking away their toys.

Oh? The Linux maintainer's were wont to harass people for stats they posted on social media? More than half a decade ago at that? This "everything is ok" and "this is not a big deal" crap rings hollow. People ARE leaving Linux over this.

That controversy was already ongoing before the CoC was implemented. Cause does not follow effect.

Do YOU think he should be drummed out of contributing for what he posted seven years ago. Yes or no.

View this comment - View article - View full comments