Quoting: gradyvuckovicWe also shouldn't assume Proton would be so effective that it would draw over huge masses of gamers overnight. Never underestimate how difficult it is to ask someone to change something as crucial as OS.

People hate change, just look at how difficult it has been for Microsoft to get people off Windows 7. Windows 8 officially became available to the general public in 2012. That's 7 years ago! 7 years of bombardment of advertising, 7 years of desktop notification reminders on Windows 7 telling people to upgrade, then several years of offering Windows 10 as a free download, and even sneaky tactics like shipping Windows 10 as a free automatic update to Windows 7. For years Windows 7 hasn't been available in retail stores on laptops/desktops for years, and installing Windows 7 on a modern PC is a nightmare as drivers for modern hardware have to be sideloaded into the installer, among other countless problems. Windows 7's EOL is coming in less than 12 months.

Fortunately for us, in some ways, switching to Linux can be seen as a less drastic change than "upgrading" your Windows version from a UI point of view (e.g. the whole Windows 8 tiling fiasco). Nothing short of a world-changing revolution will make masses of people switch to Linux overnight, but every milestone we reach and every mistake Microsoft make results in more people willing to give it a shot, and in turn more people being happy with the change, and more people hearing about Linux, and so on. We have to be prepared for the long run because this was never something we would win in a handful of years. Fortunately for us, we already live in a time where a GNU/Linux OS is damn comfortable. And for many of us, outright better than a Windows OS, never mind the fewer video games.

View this comment - View article - View full comments

Quoting: BeamboomI have to give it to you guys though: I kind of envy the confidence at display here. It takes SOME confidence to actually believe one has understood something that pretty much the entire multi-billion industry fails to see... ;)

Well, to be fair, the fact that the GNU/Linux desktop in general and Linux gaming in particular have gotten to where they are today is baffling under any kind of business-minded consideration. I think the ideology at our roots actually plays more of a role than we may sometimes admit. Just seeing Paradox recently saying that they will still consider porting future games to Linux on a case-by-case basis even though they have barely been turning a profit on them if at all, to me, is quite impressive. Many companies would (and have) just give up on us completely and choose easier ways to make more money (the DLC example being a very good one).

I'm not too much of an idealist, but in this case our track record shows that we can at least keep some hope alive despite slim odds :)

View this comment - View article - View full comments

Which ultimately doesn't matter if the games work fine on Linux anyway and the user base has grown enough that the devs are willing to provide said support via Proton when something breaks.

View this comment - View article - View full comments

I don't think any deliberate action on our part will be large enough to have a meaningful impact, to be honest. Even if you somehow got every Linux Steam user to join that kind of effort, we're still less than a percent of the market, and the wishlist situation will likely settle back somewhat by the end of the sale (especially now that Valve have reacted to the complaints).

By the way, Valve seem to have made more changes tonight. There are now Qualifier Tasks you can do to increase your capacity instead (/on top of) the in-game quests: Play a new game; Review a game; Add 3 items to your wishlist; Watch a broadcast; each is worth 500. I like that they are focused on community features and giving visibility to indies (by linking the "new game" task to the free-to-play section of the store). That's what I like to see in the sales - besides the discounts obviously.

And thankfully, now when you redeem points for recently played games with achievements, "Any extra achievements will still be available to redeem later, you won't lose any points!" That throwing away of extra points was a weird gimmick.

View this comment - View article - View full comments

I think if the recipient plays it on Windows within the first two weeks it will count as a Windows sale. I hope that the reverse is true for Linux users receiving gifts from Windows users.

View this comment - View article - View full comments

Quoting: RedfaceBut buying Windows games with Steam on proton and then playing it without support is questionable. There have been numerous example of games that work for a while and then suddenly not any more. Most of the times because of anticheats.

It's a very valid worry, but let's not forget that the same has also happened with actual Linux ports (my memory isn't good enough to cite examples off the top of my head, but they have been discussed on GOL in the past). Soon after Proton was announced, there were people asking for certain games to have their broken ports removed so they could be played via Proton. In both cases I think the underlying issue comes down to Linux being seen as a negligible market, and that's what we need to change in the long term.

Quoting: GuestLinux demand is pretty simple. Every game you support that has Linux support is a win for Linux. Every game you support that doesn't have Linux support is a loss, and a win instead for another platform(s).

My take on it, and it's very much speculation, is that we need to lose this battle if we want to win the war. It might cost us more than we like, and it might fail in the end, but the alternative hasn't been getting us anywhere in decades. I'm one to take a chance at success over guaranteed failure.

Quoting: GuestWe should support Linux games i.e. games with full good proper Linux support AND bring as many new gamers to Linux as we can.

We can and should do both things! ^n.n^

I think Proton is the best way we've ever had to do just that. Attract gamers with compatibility layers, ask (because, again, no one cares about the demands of the 1%) for at least Proton support with our meager numbers, and hope for both fronts to improve and feed off of each other.

Quoting: RedfaceIs there actually any game where the developer/publisher have said they will support Proton? I have not read about that, but seen some examples of Developers saying that Linux users just should use Proton since other users reported it works well.

I'm not sure it has happened yet, but I've seen people make the suggestion. If the idea takes, I think it sets us on the right path.

Quoting: RedfaceMost Windows users including gamers probably never heard of it, and a lot of Linux users probably neither. Most Linux users do not game, but there probably also still are a lot of dual booters that think you can not have a good gaming experience on Linux base on what they hear and read and maybe tried years ago.

That's a good point to bring up, actually. A lot of Linux users were already dual-booting for their games, or eventually gave up on Linux because there were too many hoops to jump through. So under that light, not only can Proton help us get new users, but also retain users. Regardless of everything else, we can probably agree that a Proton sale, which sends a message that there is demand from Linux, does more good than a Windows sale from a dual-booter.

View this comment - View article - View full comments

This is going in circles. Kind of like Linux gaming before Proton :P

1. Conflating two meanings of the word "demand" isn't helping anyone.
2. Yes, it's clear that if publishers can get money from Linux gamers without supporting Linux, they will do so.
3. It's also obvious and has been shown that the current number of Linux gamers doesn't matter to most publishers. They don't really care either way if we don't buy their games. Crying about it gets us nowhere.
4. We're not going to break out of that paradigm without a larger userbase. Proton can help grow our userbase by removing barriers to adoption, i.e. making Linux more attractive as an OS for gamers who are on the fence.
5. Once we have bigger numbers, maybe we can start mattering to publishers and convince them to make the effort. Or maybe our own compatibility efforts will have gotten so good that it won't really matter anymore in most cases but publishers will pay attention.

I think there's a middle road we can take as advocates here. First, assuming a limited gaming budget, I do prefer to prioritize games that have actual Linux support. Put my money where my mouth is. But also, what we can do to take advantage from Proton is incite developers to support us through Proton. Everyone likes to take the path of least effort and make more money. If a developer can't be bothered to port to Linux but can be shown that a few fixes to enable Proton would generate enough sales to be profitable, that's a step in the right direction for us.

We're dealing with proprietary software here anyway. Whether it's native or not makes little difference as long as it's properly supported. If a dev wants to support a compatibility layer rather than a full port, I say go for it. As long as we have a promise of support, we're not so much of an afterthought anymore. And then if our numbers continue to grow, there will be incentive to make sure our experience is on par with other platforms, and if that implies an actual port or changing middleware, we'll be more likely to get it.

View this comment - View article - View full comments

Quoting: Sir_DiealotOr there are fewer games for Linux released now that SteamPlay is around. Who can say with certainty? Historical data and statistics probably can. Who is going to dig in?

Still seems too early for statistics to draw meaningful conclusions for something so vague and far-reaching. Game development takes years and most/many devs will need to see the effects of Proton before they start changing their behaviour based on it. In my opinion.

View this comment - View article - View full comments

Same here, I put Hellblade up top after seeing Sin run it on Proton a couple weeks back.

Also, I see Valve have added a banner at the top of the wishlist page to make things that much clearer:

View this comment - View article - View full comments

You could say the same about Spanish...

View this comment - View article - View full comments