Quoting: MohandevirI'm really curious to see what the desktop landscape will look like in 5 to 10 years from now.

For sure Win10S and Surface devices is the way of the future in Microsoft's mind. They are really stubborn about the Windows Store and the lock down that comes with it, but what's in it for us PC Gamers? Streaming devices for Xbox Scorpio? Is this what they are thinking? Is this Microsoft's vision of the post traditional desktop era?

If that's the case, Valve needs SteamOS more than ever.

Let me explain MS moves from my point of view.

1-) MS Store is an important figure to get things right for Xbox and Windows Mobile.

MS Store games are growing day-by-day and usually they have Play Anywhere feature. This means you can play your purchased games on Windows and Xbox. So that is not killing Xbox ; instead strenghtening that.

Let's think. You bought bunch of games when you're on Windows and after years you decided to become a console ( couch) player. If you choose Sony's Playstation you will start with zero games. But if you choose Xbox , you can immediately start enjoying your pre purchased games on Xbox.

That is for killing PS.

2-) Mobile side. Last year ; MS announced that Windows Phones will be able run x86 apps in the future. You can see that ; Whatsapp , Telegram , Vlc and other kind of stuff is moving into MS Store.

Plan is ; " we couldn't get attention for WP's from developers ; so if our phones can benefit from x86 apps there will be no need for another WP port effort. "

MS Store is a key element for rising of WP. In the mobile area ; rising = app variety and number. If they come head to head with Android and Ios at app basis ; rise will begin.

3-) Developer side. You know that all stuff about Linux subsystem in Windows.

Linux is better for developing languages and tools side than Windows. So they're moving to Linux. MS saw that and they offer developers to Linux based tools. Actually , there is no need for further explaining.

Just look at that Stackoverflow Developer Survey 2017.

https://insights.stackoverflow.com/survey/2017 [External Link]

Look at the Technology sections ; Most Loved, Dreaded, and Wanted Platforms chart. That will tell so much thing.

4-) But you are probably asking ; how is this a threat for Steam? People invested for Steam so much ; they can't move to other store.

Answer is ; GOG Connect.

People are mostly deciding by their previous investments. And that causes a little lockdown - an example : Apple Store. People are so much invested to Apple Store , the thought of buying everything again on Windows is simply freaking them and they continue to use Apple ecosystem.Even if you are developing something for Apple Store , you must sent it to store via a Mac.- on Steam . But Steam is platform agnostic ; so you can move to another platform without buying your games again ; thanks to Steam Play. Ms Store is providing that cross play for only MS based solutions.

So why is the answer is GOG Connect. GOG saw that ; if we want people attraction , we must lighten their burden of previous purchases. So they invented it. If you are binding your Steam account to GOG , you can get free GOG versions of selected titles. GOG 's library is not that much big so they can offer limited games.

MS has the power for doing that GOG Connect solution on a much bigger basis. When MS Store was big enough to get provide much desired games to players with zero pay ; gamers will move to their store automaticially. That is at least 2-3 years job but it will eventually come to this.

That effort will kill the Steam.

5-) If all of that i wrote at previous happen ; that will mean that market was succesful and MS can enjoy with market incomes.

So what is the fifth step? Free Windows for everyone. Because that market incomes can afford that OS development.

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Quoting: MaCroX95I don't know how to feel about that, I certainly have a feeling that Valve really only looks for their interest. Steam OS was terrible for quite a while and people owning the "consoles" with SteamOS couldn't do much with them, even play newest games because of outdated drivers.

It is strange how they rolled Steam OS update soon after MS has announced Win 10S and even more changes coming to Win10 that will further lock it down.

Firstly they thought MS has retreated back with pushing their store after the Win10 release, but now when they're massively pushing it again and furthermore this time their store is of bigger quality than it was before they're starting to get worried again...

Hopefully Valve will win, at least they are fighting for their freedom and consequently for user freedoms as well, only thing I can say so far.

Actually , timing is a bit odd but they were working on Mesa drivers for a long time. Louis from Valve was asking about broken games on Mesa for months ago.

Someone at the top said ; they're not doing it for freedom too. That's not right. Steam is on Windows , Linux and Mac. It is platform agnostic. But let's face that truth too ; they're doing it for protecting their business. Not for the sake of Linux.

Even Ms didn't come out with Uwp, Ms Store i'm suspicious that if we can see a Linux movement from Valve.Probably not.

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Quoting: johndoe

Quoting: LeopardNext time , i will to the Feral ' Hey , yo Feral! Shmerl wants you games on GOG , because he is Polish and he has somekind of fanatizm,patriotizm about GOG so he somehow wants you to break main developers or publishers attitude. Don't mind if he is talking about other Drm-free stores ; he only cares about GOG'

Dude , enough of that your GOG loving movements. No matter what we approach you ; you're still trying to blame Feral and somehow Valve itself. Drop it off.

If you are not happy about it ; tell your beloved GOG to care about Linux by porting their titles and Galaxy , not treating us as second class citizens. Maybe after that ; our rising Linux porter Feral can consider that.

Hey Leopard,
Shmerl has an opinion and that is justified.
Please don't blame others for their thoughts/interests - this is really childish - and does not help.

Man , his attitude is childish too. He looks for a conspiracy ; which there is not.

He thinks that Feral can break the main publishers attitude about GOG ; it is not simple as that.

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Quoting: Shmerl

Quoting: LeopardNext time , i will to the Feral<...>If you are not happy about it<...>

Few things. I find exclusivity approach bad. Put yourself in that situation, and say you like when you are excluded. I.e. for instance when you as Linux user are ignored by Windows only release. Show me one person who thinks that exclusivity is something positive. Second, I already told Feral about it, so I'm sure they know.

You can tell that exclusivity to GOG or any other markets.

And you cannot see is that , Feral is not gonna be able deliberatrely release any other versions. Maybe some day if they choose to port an Aaa title which is available on Gog Windows and if they don't release it on Gog too ; we can be pissed to Feral together.

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Quoting: Shmerl

Quoting: liamdaweAs others have said, they are likely still bound by the original Publisher, so if the game isn't on GOG, Feral will likely not be able to do it themselves. They would need the Windows version on there too, I doubt they can just do whatever they please.

That's why I said above, that I'm not asking about such cases, that would be pointless to ask. I'm asking about why Feral pick only such cases to port. That's already something they choose.

Next time , i will to the Feral ' Hey , yo Feral! Shmerl wants you games on GOG , because he is Polish and he has somekind of fanatizm,patriotizm about GOG so he somehow wants you to break main developers or publishers attitude. Don't mind if he is talking about other Drm-free stores ; he only cares about GOG'

Dude , enough of that your GOG loving movements. No matter what we approach you ; you're still trying to blame Feral and somehow Valve itself. Drop it off.

If you are not happy about it ; tell your beloved GOG to care about Linux by porting their titles and Galaxy , not treating us as second class citizens. Maybe after that ; our rising Linux porter Feral can consider that.

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Quoting: Shmerl

Quoting: LeopardFeral is a company which has some deals with companies and keep doing ports of their titles. Maybe Feral is choosing only-drm publishers on purpose ( which i don't think so,since games like Hitman don't have drm on Linux despite Windows) or that is just coincidence. ( probably that is the reason, since they're on AAA level)

There are DRM-free big budget games there, which are not ported to Linux yet. Initially I also thought it's just a coincidence, but when it happens consistently (there are zero titles ported by Feral that came out in DRM-free stores), it looks like coincidence less and less, and more like systematic or intentional issue.

I asked Feral about it explicitly [External Link], and it sounds like it's not a random thing:

Q: Do you plan to ever release any (future) ports on GOG? I don't think there are any games from you there yet.

A: Not at the moment, nope.

This tells me it's about attitude, not about chance.

Quoting: Leopardso many AAA games has drm ; that is the market is going.

I don't think so. DRM was demonstrated to be futile again and again, so hopefully market isn't going in the direction of more of this insanity.

I think you are simply miss understanding Drm.

I'm also against Denuvo like shitty Drm's or other DRM's that forces you to being online all the time.

Steam is a Drm'ed place and also GOG is. Because you will need account and games stored in it all the time ; both of them.

Different thing is ; you can't just copy the game folder (on some Steam games you can) and run it on another piece of machine without your account. Actually this is also forbidden on GOG.

https://support.gog.com/hc/en-us/articles/212806505-Can-I-enjoy-my-purchases-both-on-my-laptop-and-desktop-computer-at-home- [External Link]

Yes. We do not limit the number of installations or reinstallations, as long as you install your purchased games on computers in your household. So yeah, if you've got a render-farm in the basement, you might actually break the world record for the number of legal Witcher installations in one household. However, if you think about installing your game on a friend's machine or sharing it with others then please don't do it, okay?The same principle applies to movies - you're free to watch them anywhere you want, with anyone you want, as long as you don't share them with people who haven't purchased them.

Yet , you can share your library up to 10 people on Steam.

So you can see GOG Drm free games on internet which is served by some people and this causes abuses. Basically , people who are aware of that DRM free versions are sharing them with each other. That is sad but it is a fact.

So Steam is not such a hard ruler over the DRM , in fact it allows you to share them with others in a way.

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Quoting: Shmerl

Quoting: LeopardThat is their business model , selling Steam keys via their store.

Such business model doesn't stop them from selling keys through any store (GOG and Humble also offer keys functionality for instance). I start suspecting it's rather their attitude towards DRM that's causing them to do it, or it's not about DRM but they have some Steam exclusivity deal going on. From what I've heard though, Valve claim they don't make such deals, but I'm not convinced.

To clarify, this is not about why Feral don't release titles they already ported outside of Steam. Those titles are owned by publishers who don't release DRM-free, so it's not up to Feral. It's about why Feral pick only such titles to begin with (this is up to them already).

Actually i'm thinking that Feral is tied with main publishers decision.

If that game is not originally on any Drm Free store , than the Linux version won't make it too.

Feral is a company which has some deals with companies and keep doing ports of their titles. Maybe Feral is choosing only-drm publishers on purpose ( which i don't think so,since games like Hitman don't have drm on Linux despite Windows) or that is just coincidence. ( probably that is the reason, since they're on AAA level)

Since they are porting AAA games , Windows versions of these games are not available on GOG or Humble Drm Free collection. So it is so natural these games are not on drm free stores. In fact ; so many AAA games has drm ; that is the market is going.

GOG saw an empty place on Drm free area and jumped on it ; because they know you can't get nothing by copying Steam. So they do this because they want to be different , that's all. So this not a messiah or savior thing , just another business model.

Don't mind it, since Steam Linux games are mostly not Drm strict games. Just play it ; don't waste time.

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Quoting: ShmerlSo, was it Made to Wade or not? I don't see it on their radar anymore. For me it's something I'll again skip, since it's Steam only. I hope it's not Feral's attitude towards using DRM that's causing them to release only through Steam, but so far they consistently do only that (I suppose by picking publishers who require it).

Made to Wade was DoW 3 , Spicey entry was Shogun.

That is their business model , selling Steam keys via their store.

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Quoting: liamdawe

Quoting: LeopardThan tell me Liam , what is "enough" term to them?

Whatever they need it to be. It will be different for every developer.

Quoting: LeopardWe are tiny, yes. But not for to beg for indie developer for Linux version.

Seriously, shut up calling it begging.

Quoting: LeopardI'm all okay for begging AAA games or similar huge games but if we start to hear enough request word from every developer , that won't be a good thing.

So to you, only AAA developers should be asked to make a port? Because who cares about great indie games right?

Quoting: LeopardLiam; if we let this thing going on. Every little to big developers will expect the same : Lick our ass for port of this game,maybe we can port it.

Seriously you have a terrible attitude.

Quoting: LeopardC'mon , nobody requested or at least with enough request nonsense; for DoW 3 and Shogun 2 (which they are huge) yet they're coming.

Because that is Feral's business model.

Quoting: LeopardYou can act like they're all equal but everything has a price and quality. So i won't beg for a non Aaa or non unique game.

Then don't, like I said. There's no need for such an elitist attitude.

You said

So to you, only AAA developers should be asked to make a port? Because who cares about great indie games right?

Check again my comment. I said AAA games or unique games. This game is not one of them.

If we don't be elitist , i'm afraid we can't get anymore users. So what am i doing that?

If we can grow (at least 1 percent) then i don't care but for growing we need much more top notch games. That is attracting people.

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[quote=Tiedemann][quote=Leopard]

Quoting: liamdawe

Quoting: LeopardI'm all okay for begging AAA games or similar huge games but if we start to hear enough request word from every developer , that won't be a good thing.

If they're making AAA games they don't need to ensure they're not losing on it so to me this just doesn't make sense at all.

How can you guarentee an AAA game will sell good?

Look at F1 2015. It was an AAA and released for Linux but it didn't sell well both on Windows and Linux.

So how can you guarentee that DoW3 will sell good on Mac and Linux?
That game literally had no single player and focused on multiplayer.But multi is limited to Linux vs Mac. So what will happen?

I also want to note these games have their own engines , not Unity or UE4.

This is an investment and a risk. Even big companies has chance to screw up.

So your comment is very wrong.

Ha if you are insting on that: If One have a chance to choose for begging , let it be an AAA title.

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