Quoting: cRaZy-bisCuiT7 nm but only GTX 2080 performance? Why? For the same price?

Nice only because we got a open well performing driver on Linux for AMD. Still I'm not much impressed.

Half of the structure (14nm -> 7nm) cannot bring you double of the performance, because the are negative physical effects working against you (read a physics book for details).

And therefor I must correct you, the improvements are impressive. You could read the article, it's a bit half information mixing CPU/GPU!?? But under the line from a Science POV the same architecture, but in 7nm -> for CPU&GPU getting a boost of ~33%+ and sametime a decrease of ~33%+ power consumption is more than impressive and very realistic. And the GPU doubles the memory, but also the impressive bandwidth (most important thing above all (e.g. higher resolution gaming and better VR resolutions and textures)) makes it future prove.
(If you can't get the textures fast enough into the memory, it doesn't matter how fast the GPU can compute in theory)

If you don't care about your energy bill and have water cooling, sure overclock it and go for your 80% performance boost. But why? Better save power, low temperature, less noise - and sufficient more performance!
AMD took a good balance decision there - against bottlenecks, not just to impress on paper!!!

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Quoting: liamdaweAMD say it's the "world's first" to support PCIe 4.0 connectivity

Does this only count for the 3rd gen Ryzen??? OR also for the Radeon VII (and upcoming Motherboards)?

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Quoting: kuhpunkt

Quoting: lelouchNo, I speaking obviously about both - separated and in it's depends.

No, matter that - if pre-HL2 VR or "your" HL3 or both. Don't make yourself illusions. It't will be a VR-game and you don't want to or maybe cannot play it w/o VR.

So you deny that there's a difference between HL3 and a spin off prequel thingy in VR?

No, exactly not. You deny to understand what I actually wrote about gaming, software, hardware, the industrie working mechanism. And that I see also, by you not getting the meaningless of being a HL3 or a Pre-HL2 VR or both or whatever. So please stop trolling now, I made the points very clear. My sparetime is too expensive to me for talking in circles about things everyone should get by their own.

In the end, believe that you want. I explained the whole thing more than once. Get it or not. Troll or not. Do a bit sports outdoors for fresh air.
I accept your appologies in 3 years, after you saw what valve will be really doing in the end.

h.a.n.d.

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Quoting: kuhpunkt

Quoting: lelouchIt is speculation how long it will take. Neither you, nor I or anyone else can predict these things. Can be 6 months, 12m, 1year, 2y, 5y, 10y or even never if it takes to long and newer better technology throws its shadows or whatever else.
It seems you only can see the extremes. Look up the history or your memory of internet, smartphone, WLAN...
Before the mainstream knew smartphones exist, the hardware and software were already around 7 years in development, technology science research maybe even longer. Steam Controller was pretty fast ready in retrospective. Starcraft 1 (around 7 years) in the 1990s was on the other hand unbelievable long. And I don't talk from the subjective point of view.

You're derailing my argument, because you speak so much about the hardware. I'm speaking about HL3. That was the only thing I brought up.

No, I speaking obviously about both - separated and in it's depends.

No, matter that - if pre-HL2 VR or "your" HL3 or both. Don't make yourself illusions. It't will be a VR-game and you don't want to or maybe cannot play it w/o VR. Your todays computer won't get it to work. But at release software/hardware will be ready, and if not already you have to buy it new at that time.

Like it was with Unreal, shadows of the empire (90's) and HL2 with the steam-client-force nobody wanted, because at that time internet was slow and few had it yet.

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Quoting: GuestPersonally I think VR can work out, for most games even, we need a middle step, where both keyboard and mouse are fully replaced by some superior peripheral (maybe something like EEG+speech recognition) and then that needs to be further improved to also be the replacement and successor of the (currently shoddy) motion control gimmick.

speech-recog. in-game??? In FPS?

More likely: your both hands are the mouse buttons (optical recog)
eyetracking+gyro for mouse cusor movement
maybe a hardware wheel (e.g. changing items/weapons)

Yeah, maybe voice for menu navigation. (because slow reaction-times) - but I think voice is not good enough for gaming in years.

Maybe touching in the air for simple stuff.

Replacing a whole keyboard, would be overhead - keeping it simple, minmalistic few buttons in VR,

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Quoting: kuhpunkt

Quoting: lelouch

Quoting: kuhpunkt

Quoting: lelouch

Quoting: kuhpunkt

Quoting: lelouch

Quoting: kuhpunktI'm still baffled how many people think that HL3 would be a VR game. That makes no sense and would be a very very dumb idea.

No, it wouldn't. Obviously Valve is waiting for the right time - VR is affordable for everyone in the future like it was for smartphones (2007) at some point, and the internet and computers in the past and so on ....

So? That's still dumb. That's like making 2 movies and then releasing the third part of the story as a card game.

You make no sense - here is the talking about making a Story-FPS more immersive and moving to VR - nothing to do with a card game conversion lol.

But you would completely exclude everybody else from playing the game if they don't have this expensive accessorize. That would be nuts. Don't you get that?

No, "Don't you get that?"!!! The news above is about a new VR-Headset, explicitly it will be cheaper of course. And you thinking it will be released 'tomorrow'. *nuts*. You need patience.

Only a few had the first expensive smartphones and LED-TVs, too.

So hope you finally get it, that all others got, but not you, READ down below!:
Valve makes a new VR affordable for everyone, at some point specific in the future (NOT next week, NOT next month) they will release it, so the majority/enough will have VR. After that they will probably release some AAA-VR-games. And of course not 100% of all pc gamers will have the hardware, but e.g. 60-80% will and it will rise further with good games (not the 2h-VR-walking-games rubbish of today). That's enough. In Free-2-Play titles it's even enough for the companies that 1% buy things in-game with real money.
At the time HL2 came out, do you think my computer at this time could play it. Only a few had the hardware AND the internet for the new "steam client" force (w/o cracks).
In the 90s I bought a 200€ addon-card Diamond Monster 3D just for 1 game (plus 60€). (games were far better in the 90s - so everyone did it)
Valve doing a long term strategic plan.

It will take many years (even with a cheaper HMD) until there's a majority of people with VR. But that's not the point. The point is that a HL3 VR would exclude people who want to see how the story goes on. Doing that would be insane and nothing compared to the Diablo Immortal shitstorm - and even that wasn't really deserved, as it's just a spinoff/prequel and not Diablo 4.

That's the thing. What do you think would happen if Blizzard would release Diablo 4 only on phones?

And of course Valve will release more AAA VR titles to push VR. Using the Half Life brand to expand the universe is fine. I'm looking forward to that one very much. But they can't do that with HL3.

It is speculation how long it will take. Neither you, nor I or anyone else can predict these things. Can be 6 months, 12m, 1year, 2y, 5y, 10y or even never if it takes to long and newer better technology throws its shadows or whatever else.
It seems you only can see the extremes. Look up the history or your memory of internet, smartphone, WLAN...
Before the mainstream knew smartphones exist, the hardware and software were already around 7 years in development, technology science research maybe even longer. Steam Controller was pretty fast ready in retrospective. Starcraft 1 (around 7 years) in the 1990s was on the other hand unbelievable long. And I don't talk from the subjective point of view.

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Quoting: kuhpunkt

Quoting: lelouch

Quoting: kuhpunkt

Quoting: lelouch

Quoting: kuhpunktI'm still baffled how many people think that HL3 would be a VR game. That makes no sense and would be a very very dumb idea.

No, it wouldn't. Obviously Valve is waiting for the right time - VR is affordable for everyone in the future like it was for smartphones (2007) at some point, and the internet and computers in the past and so on ....

So? That's still dumb. That's like making 2 movies and then releasing the third part of the story as a card game.

You make no sense - here is the talking about making a Story-FPS more immersive and moving to VR - nothing to do with a card game conversion lol.

But you would completely exclude everybody else from playing the game if they don't have this expensive accessorize. That would be nuts. Don't you get that?

No, "Don't you get that?"!!! The news above is about a new VR-Headset, explicitly it will be cheaper of course. And you thinking it will be released 'tomorrow'. *nuts*. You need patience.

Only a few had the first expensive smartphones and LED-TVs, too.

So hope you finally get it, that all others got, but not you, READ down below!:
Valve makes a new VR affordable for everyone, at some point specific in the future (NOT next week, NOT next month) they will release it, so the majority/enough will have VR. After that they will probably release some AAA-VR-games. And of course not 100% of all pc gamers will have the hardware, but e.g. 60-80% will and it will rise further with good games (not the 2h-VR-walking-games rubbish of today). That's enough. In Free-2-Play titles it's even enough for the companies that 1% buy things in-game with real money.
At the time HL2 came out, do you think my computer at this time could play it. Only a few had the hardware AND the internet for the new "steam client" force (w/o cracks).
In the 90s I bought a 200€ addon-card Diamond Monster 3D just for 1 game (plus 60€). (games were far better in the 90s - so everyone did it)
Valve doing a long term strategic plan.

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@liamdawe

It does make you think about Valve's future plans. They're doing this new VR hardware, some new games and pushing Steam Play to get more games on Linux. Would it be too far-fetched to consider a new Steam Machine? One continued to be powered by their SteamOS Linux distribution that allows VR support out of the box along with a huge back catalogue of previously Windows-only games.

Seems not like it is to "far-fetched", more like a long term strategic plan with testing things out. From Valves POV: Own Steam Controller absolutely, moving away from Windows-exclusive, old games compatibility (Proton), steam machine over 3rd-party companies to lower the costs (testing - did not work) - > so making all software/hardware at their own.

You know the actual VR flaws: price, cable, set-up, resolution...
And the big player like EA and Ubisoft and Blizzard making their own thing and moving away from steam since years - It's NO new thing from 2018.

So sooner or later they have to make AAA-Titles again (which dota, rocket league and architect are definitely not).
As soon Steamplay/Proton is stable I'm sure they will extend it to include steam-forgein-games under linux as easy (from EA/UPLAY/BATTLE.NET.
Will have a VR-headset on low price, w/o todays flaws (consider how precise the gyro-sensor on the steam controller works -> low weight, no extern sensors and cableless VR) - and as fallback VR-stream to the smartphone every one has - at least VR works.
At the right time with the right own(!) AAA-game(s).

To be clear, I'm was more surprised about poenix point stopping linux support - not over valve moves to stay in the market.

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Quoting: kuhpunkt

Quoting: lelouch

Quoting: kuhpunktI'm still baffled how many people think that HL3 would be a VR game. That makes no sense and would be a very very dumb idea.

No, it wouldn't. Obviously Valve is waiting for the right time - VR is affordable for everyone in the future like it was for smartphones (2007) at some point, and the internet and computers in the past and so on ....

So? That's still dumb. That's like making 2 movies and then releasing the third part of the story as a card game.

You make no sense - here is the talking about making a Story-FPS more immersive and moving to VR - nothing to do with a card game conversion lol.

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Quoting: dannielloVery risky move. VR market is very expensive and... very unprofitable.

No, it is not. You are thinking only in the "here and now"-category. A good business-company plans for the future. (e.g. smartphones before you even knew they exist <-> smartphones today)

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