Native ports aren't sustainable. Such releases are so volatile that you can't persuade someone to switch or stay on Linux. Even if we do get native releases, we have to wait much longer than Windows to play the games. With Proton, it's stable and we can play games from first few days they are launched. The reason Proton fails is because there are actors within the industry who's business is reliant on Proton's failure, and they will do things to stop it's momentum.

Linux gaming's opportunity to kick off depends on Proton's success and Vulkan adoption. Imagine Proton and Vulkan as two buddies stuck in a underground cave. Proton has made a straight, narrow and small line up to surface water which both Vulkan and Proton is sustained by. While Proton does that, Vulkan is digging a path up to the surface. If Proton dies, Vulkan will too. Their deaths will symbolize death of Linux gaming's growth.

I can't state it enough, native ports aren't sustainable in general. Despite many major games having Vulkan renderer (Doom, Red Dead, Cyberpunk, etc etc) publishers/developers won't release them on Linux. That is pure fact. And the only way to play these games are through Proton. And when games work on Linux, even if it's not native, people will switch and stay on Linux. Marketshare will grow and that will surely lead to developers and publishers deciding on a Linux port, especially if by that time Vulkan has become widely used in the industry.

That all is a ideal scenario though. Microsoft and other actors will surely do things that will hurt Proton or/and Vulkan.

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This means very little to desktop Linux. Correct me if I am wrong but isn't open source software different than FOSS? One is free (Linux), while other is open source with a restrictive license.

So them admiting they were wrong about open source is a matter of them going back on the decision to share their code. It's not going back on anything else. Many of their apps are either not supported or lacking on Linux. And they stand in the way for desktop Linux to progress. Do you all really believe DX12 Ultimate is a coincedence? In a time when Vulkan is being utilizied (Switch, Android, Proton, Stadia). Gaming is important aspect to get marketshare, and Vulkan being widely used on PC will power up gamng on Linux significantly. With more marketshare more games and apps will come to Linux.

They don't love Linux [External Link]. The notion that they do is bordering on propaganda. They simply love the parts of Linux that helps their business.

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Quoting: KelvinhboI'm only smelling shit here and I'm trying to clean up the smell a little bit, but sometimes people enjoy the smell of their on nastiness and there is not much you can do about it, my setup is irrelevant because I have been able to reproduce it on different cards and CPU's but if you must know my main is a 9900k, GTX 1080 ti at 3440x1440,150-300 fps nice dude! because the game is capped at 250 fps max.

I'm sure I'm not changing any of your minds, Linux purist are far too gone, but if a Window user that is curious about Linux comes here to learn about games reads all this nonsense about "native" ports then tries it out, then see how bad the games runs compared to Windows, That's the best way to keep a 0.4 market share forever.

For AAA and AA games 99% of "Native" Linux ports are garbage, you can confirm this by going into Protondb and seeing the comments on "Native" games there, on almost every game you will find the same advise, "Force the game through Proton, Much better performance", Deus Ex: Makind Devided just became playable for me because of Proton 5 and that's one of the better ports from Feral.

https://www.protondb.com/app/337000 [External Link]

There is no need to go about calling people Linux purists and calling this community shit. I know, you were shunned and mocked but those are actions of those respective users and is not representative of the community. I do agree though that games being touted as native is not a guarantee that they are of high quality.

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Quoting: Guest

Quoting: Kelvinhbo

Quoting: Guest

Quoting: Kelvinhbo

Quoting: Guest

Quoting: KelvinhboI wish they would just make sure the game runs well with Proton instead of focusing resources on a native port that would surely be abandoned in a couple months.

If that's how you feel, why are you even using Linux? Go back to Windows. It's one thing to want an old game to work in Proton; one that will likely never see a native version. But you actively wish that a publisher who has announced a native port should abandon it and concentrate on the Windows port. Completely blows my mind, and again proves to me that a lot of 'Linux' gamers only care about their latest fix rather than advancing gaming on Linux.

Native ports, announcements of such, etc, should be praised, supported and encouraged. And in the long run, the use of Proton, while necessary now, should be discouraged. Particularly for new games. It definitely has its place for older games, though.

I have been using Linux since Red Hat 9 kernel 2.2 buddy, you are the one that should be going back to Windows if you are this delusional. Almost every Linux native port that I have tried over the years have performed significantly worst than on Windows, only exceptions are Valve native ports and Feral's recent conversions.

About 90% of the Linux native ports I own have been abandoned for years, Examples: Both Borderlands, both Metros, Bioshock Infinite, Dying Light, etc... the list goes on and on, at this point you can get double the performance, on some cases even more when you force your native ports to run on Proton.

Even a game that wasn't abandoned until recently "Rocket League", performed absolutely horrible on the Linux native port, I could get around 120 fps on Linux, same settings on Windows gave me 250 fps, same settings on Linux with Proton D9VK gave me 250 fps.

Maintaining different ports of games is expensive and time consuming for developers, with this magical little software called Proton all of these hassles are bypassed and everybody wins, with some tweaking I can get almost the same performance as on Windows with Proton, on a few games even better and more stable, maybe when the market share of Linux gamers is over 50% then we can start talking about native ports.

I think native, or natively supported, is the only way forward. Games break between wine versions all the time too.

Support is the key word. And if GNU/Linux wasn't _now_ feasible for gaming, on a technical level, Stadia wouldn't use it.

I respect your opinion even tho I think is dead wrong, that's right support is important witch is why developers should make sure games run well on Proton from the start, instead of making a Linux native port and abandon it a few months later.

By the way! isn't Stadia a complete train wreck right now? I think you should catch up with the news.

Well without support, it's just gaming for Windows. Support doesn't mean "pure compiled native" by the way - wine is fine, so long as it's supported. Basically treating gaming the same as every single other platform.

Stadia doesn't appear to have technical problems with the games. Last I checked. Other issues, yes, but not technical problems with the games.

In other words you are fine by developers targeting native or Proton release as long as they follow the release up with support?

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Quoting: ShmerlOh, so here we see the outcome that was expected from better publishers. Once something is released for Stadia, they can release for regular Linux too. Good development. Would be even better if they released it on GOG too.

Hopefully we'll see more of these kind of developments.

Are you certain of this? It seems to me that Deep Silver have more experience with Linux (and crossplatform tech) and it is this that makes it possible for them to do a Linux release. I just found out Metro Redux will be available for Nintendo Switch 28 February. So they have experience with developing for Linux. They are porting Exodus to Stadia (Vulkan) and Redux for Switch (Likely Vulkan).

The dev I mentioned [External Link] who said Stadia and Linux is far to different. I hope I am wrong and that Stadia makes it far more feasible to port games to Linux. Can you imagine Cyberpunk 2077 on Linux with Vulkan? :O

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I wonder why they are doing this. Don't misunderstand me, this is great, but I thought Linux isn't feasible from a business point of view. I say this with what I heard from a developer, saying that Stadia and Desktop Linux is far to different. So apparently, it seems, the difference isn't that significant? A interview with Deep Silver would be nice.

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I am hoping Valve's Steam Cloud will come out soon. It will be very hard for me to use Stadia. Knowing I am paying or using a service from a company that would overthrow Linux, with their ChromeOS, and that often censors their services isn't okay with me. Valve on other hand seems to be fair. Even if you are skeptical to my "claims", you can already see Stadia is not much better than EGS in that they engage in exclusivity too. Which is a bad thing in general for gaming on PC.

I've tested Remote Play (more) and it will be a decent solution when I need to stream. That said, if Stadia's success will bring alot improvements to Linux ecosystem (particularly Desktop), then I am all for it. It's understandable to me though if anyone on Linux uses Stadia, afterall it lets you play games you couldn't otherwise and you are still using Linux for that.

EDIT: And if Google wanted positivity both for ChromeOS and Desktop Linux, they would encourage developers to not only provide their games via streaming on both platforms, but also local versions. But they aren't doing that...

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Quoting: clatterfordslimSo yeah, maybe it'll get things somewhere, maybe it won't. It may indeed end up doing more harm than good. But I don't see anything else on the horizon capable of beating certain chicken-egg problems, so thus far I'd rather see it than nothing.

Right? If Linux could or would have become popular without Proton's existance, but simply with native ports, why didn't it the last decade? I am so sure that if Proton wasn't around Linux would be seriously choked out. Xbox Game Pass, XCloud and Play anywhere from Microsoft and changes made to Windows 10 since initial period are pretty good!

Quoting: clatterfordslimSo if we really want Windows games straight from the developers, to play from release day one we who are playing their games through Proton should be getting in contact with the developers, to say hey we are able to play your game here in Linux, with better performance than in Windows. Any chance you could add some Vulkan to the code so we can have it natively? Then leave them names of Linux Porters Feral Interactive for instance. We as players of these games should be doing something too and not just leaving it to the likes of Steam, as they are working so hard already making Proton work with every game under the sun. The question is though. Would developers actually listen and take note to what Joe Bloggs has to say and ask?? But this was the whole idea of Proton anyway, however it was going to show to developers, being played on Linux?

No. I don't mean to be cynical but many developers have already made up their mind or/and are also restricted by other factors such as their employers or software licenses. It's also been said it's not the porting that's costly it is the fact you have to maintain it. What you can do is ask developers or companies that show interest, because believe me many don't care because of business (with the 1% marketshare in mind), who favor Vulkan over D3D to maybe consider porting their games. Even games that primarily uses Vulkan (DOOM) are hard to get ported to Linux because developers don't can't bother with maintaining the port after release. Even after a game has been ported to Linux you can't be certain well done or/and it will be maintained (Metro Last Light). EDIT: Indie developers are a exception. Their games are smaller in scope and they are largely independent, so I'd ask for port for such games.

What you should do is promote cross platform tech such as Vulkan. Not only is it effortless for developers, as they don't have to maintain a Linux version, but it will run close to native through Proton. I have seen numerous posts of people asking for Linux release for many, many games. Developers don't listen for whatever reason. I have strong belief that Vulkan adoption and Proton's getting better will bring many more people to Linux. Remember, a game that uses Vulkan that runs through Proton does not use DXVK nor D9VK so the code is run natively and with negligable performance penalty. Word of mouth is a powerful marketing. But as I pointed out earlier, Linux is less feasible for more people until anticheat and VK3D support is finalized.

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Quoting: EikeI understand that it's the rescue for some (many) Linux gamers. I fear that it's hindering Linux native ports (while others think it's the possibility for Linux gaming to lift of to getr more native ports). It's an astonishing piece of software for sure. So, mixed bag for me.

What I mainly wanted to say is that I don't feel it will succeed in lifting off Linux gaming, unfortunately.

Your concern is valid and rings true. But I believe Proton will do far more good than harm. Native ports (speaking of major games not indie) vs Proton is like the saying that goes something like this "Give a man a fish, and he will be fed for a day. Teach a man how to fish and he will be fed for life". Native ports won't by itself adress issue of marketshare. It's such a fickle situation that Proton is really necessary. As has been said if 10 major companies port their big games to Linux, all the money from us Linux gamers will be spread across them. And as it is, the users are so few that there is little money for them, and now with ten major games competing against eachother that money is made even less.

Don't consider Proton the end result, consider it a long term solution to ensure native ports on Linux. Proton also encourages Vulkan and Vulkan is a key players for developers to be able to port games easier and with less costs. You should still keep a healthy buying habit. If there is a game that's excellent and available natively on Linux, that you like, spend alot money on it. For Proton titles...wait for discount and spend less. I've observed alot positive things with Proton's release. Things are brewing. It has made such positive effect on my gaming experience on Linux. And Valve hasn't shown any signs of stopping with their investment in it. Stay positive:)

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Quoting: EikeTrouble is, it already is one year later and our percentage didn't budge.

There are many reasons why:
1. Proton isn't complete
1.1 It lacks anti cheat support which hinders many popular games from working.
1.2 It still is undergoing development (VK3D), further optimization and bug fixes
2. Other platforms are also improving. Windows now has Xbox Game Pass and soon it will also have XCloud. That is a compelling proposition for gamers to stay on or use Windows.
3. Linux needs marketing, it has little to no marketing.
4. Other platforms are preinstalled on PC that people buy

It isn't now you should be judging Proton harshly. You should when anti cheat support has landed and VK3D progresses as much as DXVK has.

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