Quoting: ShmerlThere is some sane limit you want to chase after. I.e. if they reverse engineer Windows itself - it's one target. If they also have to chase after proprietary APIs of GPU makers - that's a lot more moving targets to chase.

Have you watched the HotHardware interview [External Link] with Scott Herkelman and Frank Azor?

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Quoting: ShmerlReverse engineering is one option, which Wine as a project is doing all the time, but in this case I'd consider it a waste of resources.

Noveau doesn't seem to be in good state, even with developers trying, as Nvidia aren't being nice. So yes, It would be wasteful. It would be best if Valve and Co focused on AMD only so that development will be faster and easier because it's open source. Then Linux gamers can just decide to buy AMD GPU on their next upgrade.

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Quoting: ShmerlWine developers (vkd3d-proton more exactly) said they won't bother with DLSS, so I don't expect that to happen.

How can they do anything with DLSS? It's proprietary and locked down. Perhaps they may decide for AMD's alternative as that will be open and supposedly crossplatform.

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Quoting: x_wingStadia real leverage are Android and Chromecast, Chromebooks are barely starting to gain traction (just see the numbers).

Android is Google's mobile ecosystem, and it's dominating mobile devices. For desktop and laptops, they have very low share. Just because Chromebooks barely have any market share or is getting traction it does not make it bad to pair up with Stadia. Chromebooks have low capacity SSD storage, low CPU and GPU powers, perfect match up with Stadia which requires no storage and bare minimum specs. Part of what earns Microsoft alot of money is because people are using a PC on their platform, which exposes them to all Microsoft services and products. This is the same thing that Google does with Android users, with preinstalled apps and what not. If Google can get ChromeOS to rival Windows, it will boost their business.

Quoting: x_wingEven if locally running a Stadia game on a common distro is possible (something that I really doubt), the advantages of the service are still there and there is nothing that any Linux distro or any other OS can do in order to affect them.

I truly believe that if running Stadia version of a game locally in any distro was possible (with the exception of multiplayer games), Google would not have any problem on allowing their users to download the game so they can use it offline as it would be very cool extra feature. So, with all this said, I completely disagree with your theory.

I'm sorry, Stadia foundation is Debian with Vulkan, and somehow you truly believe that Google don't have any means to make it so Stadia users can have local play on top of streaming? Greedy and shady companies like Google don't value free choice. Streaming is the ultimate DRM.

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Quoting: LordDaveTheKind

Quoting: einherjar*cries in NVidia*

it works also for NVidia btw.

I have completed the tutorial and the first mission (2h of gameplay so far). No critical bugs or issues so far on Nvidia RTX 3090.

So basically you shed only one two tears:tongue: Hope it's fixed asap.

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Quoting: x_wingAnd how is this connected with your theory of the clause to not allow to use the Stadia work for a Linux release?

They can leverage Stadia doing the heavy work and offer Chromebooks that are elegant and slim with modest but capable GPU and CPU for a good price, that you can do work and gaming on. If games aren't made available for local play on Linux (even for Chromebooks), desktop Linux will suffer while Chromebooks will not. Because Google seems to want a streaming only future and probably will base their Chromebook business based on that.

Quoting: x_wingIMO, the fact that you have to buy a Chromebook in order to get ChromeOS shows that it is more a direct competitor to Windows/MacOS computers as one of the main problems of Linux distros is that they aren't widely preinstalled in the notebooks/desktop sold to the public.

Yes, but Linux is a competitor too. Ultimately I don't think desktop Linux rivaling Windows and Mac aligns with what Google wants. You can go out and build your own PC and install Linux. You can also buy a premade PC from Google, Apple or Microsoft. If you buy a Chromebook, you are part of Google ecosystem, they benefit. If you buy a laptop or build your own PC and use Linux, you are within Linux ecosystem (desktop). Linux benefits.

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Quoting: x_wingThis doesn't makes sense. If ChromeOS sees a Linux distro as competence then I don't want to know how they see Windows 10 (or MacOS for the matter of same products type). The value of a Streaming platform is all the infrastructure you build in order to make it possible, not to mention that users like the idea of Stadia because they don't need to have the latest hardware in order to play games.

If CDPR would care about Linux we would already have the Linux port of CP2077. I fail to understand why this is so difficult to see and some people prefer to think on artificial/corporation limitations that are limiting them to do the release.

Stadia is Google's push for gaming. Google's main OS is ChromeOS, that powers Chromebooks. If Google decides to market Chromebooks as aggressively as they are marketing Stadia, who do you think it's detrimental for? Only Windows and Mac?

Quoting: Purple Library GuyBut desktop Linux doesn't compete with ChromeOS. Really, it doesn't. Someday in the distant future, it may, but not currently. They both compete with Windows and to some extent Mac. But ChromeOS is going after a segment of the Windows monopoly that is very distinct from the segment that sees any desktop Linux uptake.

How is it not? If someone decides to game on Chromebooks over Linux, they are then exposed to Chrome ecosystem (Which is whatever Google wants it to be).

Quoting: Purple Library GuyNobody who uses desktop Linux would, if desktop Linux were unavailable, say "I guess my second choice for doing that job is ChromeOS". And nobody who uses ChromeOS would, if ChromeOS were unavailable, say "I guess I'll switch to desktop Linux". Their second choice would be an iPad or something.

ChromeOS just like Linux is evolving. The potential for any kind of user to decide to use Chromebook isn't out of the equation. Good products and services with aggressive marketing could make somebody to go "Maybe I will buy a Chromebook", especially if they already are introduced to products like Stadia. Of course, I am talking about the future. Right now I have not seen Google market Chromebooks for gaming. I'd guess that it's because they are waiting for better timing, when Stadia popularity is much better and more polished.

Quoting: Purple Library GuyMeanwhile, on the technology level, ChromeOS pretty much is desktop Linux, so it's in Google's interest for desktop Linux as a technology to do well. And if they want to move ChromeOS up the food chain to be a non-toy OS, which to some extent they seem to, they'll have to use more desktop Linux technology. And as someone challenging the Windows desktop monopoly, it's somewhat positive for them if anyone else has some success in doing so--any reduction in the ubiquitous assumption that desktop == Windows is good.

ChromeOS is Google's Linux. What things it has with desktop Linux can change whenever Google likes it. I think Google has the reputation, money and products to challenge Windows even without desktop Linux. One of the biggest reason Linux market share is low is because of gaming. Google has little to no trouble there with many developers supporting Stadia, ensuring that games work on Chromebooks. Few if any are developing for desktop Linux, and if they do there isn't a guarantee that the quality of release will be good or that they will maintain it.

I assure you regardless of what ChromeOS has in common with Linux, similar to Android, the underlying principles of these platforms deviates to a small or bigger degree to what I love about Linux. I had to use LineageOS to get away from Google products and services for example. And these things can change if Google wants to, for better or worse. Stadia is another proof of that. "A place for all the ways we play". I like to play locally.

Quoting: Purple Library GuySo overall, I don't think Google have any reason to be against desktop Linux; if they had an opportunity to kneecap someone, both Microsoft and Apple would be far ahead of desktop Linux in their "to crush" list. And in a zero-sum game where kneecapping desktop Linux mostly would help MS and Apple (but not ChromeOS because different market segment), there's no way they'd be doing that. What I can see is Google, or the little Stadia bit anyway, pushing for exclusives period, so that no desktop version happens at all. But I don't think they have the market share in the gaming business to pull that off much.

Definitely, right now they don't have any reasons to crush Linux, just as it's beneficial for Linux platform to work with Stadia to overthrow Microsoft's tactics. But what happens when Stadia and Chromebooks become popular enough to point that Chromebooks market share outgrows Linux? Then ChromeOS will overshadow Linux and there will be three, not two ecosystems for Linux to contend with. If Google intends to leverage Stadia to increase market share of ChromeOS, they will undoubtedly get a reason to want to be against Linux. Linux may not be or become their biggest competitors, but it will be a competitor. Because why would people buy Chromebooks and use ChromeOS for gaming if Linux gives them a great option (that includes Stadia)? Assuming the scenario is that both Linux and Chrome has become much better for gaming, and Windows grip on gaming is slipping.

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Quoting: NociferWhat if they (don't) tell us that them making a Linux-native Vulkan renderer for Stadia is part of an under-the-table deal with Google to not make it available for general use so it won't benefit their competition.

I'm not usually one for conspiracy theories, and I'm practically pulling this out of my a$$ here, but it wouldn't really surprise me if it became known some day that Google has employed such practices in order to promote Stadia.

I think people who easily label others thoughts as conspiracy theories are naive at best and ignorant at worst. No bad company will come out and reveal what shady things they are doing behind scenes, they will likely try to hide their actions. I have always thought up until this discussion surrounding Cyberpunk that Stadia might not have negative consequences for Linux when it comes to developers wanting to use Stadia release as opportunity to release on Linux as well. But it hit me, and as I said, if developers games work on Stadia..why would they bother to take the initiative to release natively or make Vulkan renderer for the Windows release to help Linux ecosystem. They can just say "Play it on Stadia". This will be hugely detrimental to Linux ecosystem and great for Stadia (Chromebooks/ChromeOS).

I have hoped and still do that CDPR makes Vulkan renderer available on Windows. But if CDPR isn't doing the Stadia port themselves then that will likely not happen. Furthermore there goes the chance of CDPR transitioning to Vulkan API for next Witcher game whether that be a sequel, prequel or remake. This isn't good.

Also I would not be surprised if Google had a clause in their agreement with developers that prohibits or restricts native release on Linux. Why on world would you as a company be for desktop Linux, which competes with ChromeOS, and also encourage a local release that goes against your streaming service?

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We discuss the harm Proton can or has done to native releases. What if developers rely on Stadia for Linux gamers to play their games. What if when we ask CDPR to make Vulkan renderer available for Proton, they then tell us that it's not worth it for them to do that because the game is already playable on Stadia.

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Quoting: rustybroomhandleWe do. It's a DirectX 12 game because of the raytracing support. The Stadia port is Vulkan, so I guess they do have a basis upon which they could include Vulkan support on Windows with some effort, but for now it is DirectX 12.

Where has it been stated that Stadia port uses Vulkan? All I've read are peoples expectations.

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