Quoting: LordDaveTheKind

Quoting: einherjar*cries in NVidia*

it works also for NVidia btw.

I have completed the tutorial and the first mission (2h of gameplay so far). No critical bugs or issues so far on Nvidia RTX 3090.

So basically you shed only one two tears:tongue: Hope it's fixed asap.

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Quoting: x_wingAnd how is this connected with your theory of the clause to not allow to use the Stadia work for a Linux release?

They can leverage Stadia doing the heavy work and offer Chromebooks that are elegant and slim with modest but capable GPU and CPU for a good price, that you can do work and gaming on. If games aren't made available for local play on Linux (even for Chromebooks), desktop Linux will suffer while Chromebooks will not. Because Google seems to want a streaming only future and probably will base their Chromebook business based on that.

Quoting: x_wingIMO, the fact that you have to buy a Chromebook in order to get ChromeOS shows that it is more a direct competitor to Windows/MacOS computers as one of the main problems of Linux distros is that they aren't widely preinstalled in the notebooks/desktop sold to the public.

Yes, but Linux is a competitor too. Ultimately I don't think desktop Linux rivaling Windows and Mac aligns with what Google wants. You can go out and build your own PC and install Linux. You can also buy a premade PC from Google, Apple or Microsoft. If you buy a Chromebook, you are part of Google ecosystem, they benefit. If you buy a laptop or build your own PC and use Linux, you are within Linux ecosystem (desktop). Linux benefits.

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Quoting: x_wingThis doesn't makes sense. If ChromeOS sees a Linux distro as competence then I don't want to know how they see Windows 10 (or MacOS for the matter of same products type). The value of a Streaming platform is all the infrastructure you build in order to make it possible, not to mention that users like the idea of Stadia because they don't need to have the latest hardware in order to play games.

If CDPR would care about Linux we would already have the Linux port of CP2077. I fail to understand why this is so difficult to see and some people prefer to think on artificial/corporation limitations that are limiting them to do the release.

Stadia is Google's push for gaming. Google's main OS is ChromeOS, that powers Chromebooks. If Google decides to market Chromebooks as aggressively as they are marketing Stadia, who do you think it's detrimental for? Only Windows and Mac?

Quoting: Purple Library GuyBut desktop Linux doesn't compete with ChromeOS. Really, it doesn't. Someday in the distant future, it may, but not currently. They both compete with Windows and to some extent Mac. But ChromeOS is going after a segment of the Windows monopoly that is very distinct from the segment that sees any desktop Linux uptake.

How is it not? If someone decides to game on Chromebooks over Linux, they are then exposed to Chrome ecosystem (Which is whatever Google wants it to be).

Quoting: Purple Library GuyNobody who uses desktop Linux would, if desktop Linux were unavailable, say "I guess my second choice for doing that job is ChromeOS". And nobody who uses ChromeOS would, if ChromeOS were unavailable, say "I guess I'll switch to desktop Linux". Their second choice would be an iPad or something.

ChromeOS just like Linux is evolving. The potential for any kind of user to decide to use Chromebook isn't out of the equation. Good products and services with aggressive marketing could make somebody to go "Maybe I will buy a Chromebook", especially if they already are introduced to products like Stadia. Of course, I am talking about the future. Right now I have not seen Google market Chromebooks for gaming. I'd guess that it's because they are waiting for better timing, when Stadia popularity is much better and more polished.

Quoting: Purple Library GuyMeanwhile, on the technology level, ChromeOS pretty much is desktop Linux, so it's in Google's interest for desktop Linux as a technology to do well. And if they want to move ChromeOS up the food chain to be a non-toy OS, which to some extent they seem to, they'll have to use more desktop Linux technology. And as someone challenging the Windows desktop monopoly, it's somewhat positive for them if anyone else has some success in doing so--any reduction in the ubiquitous assumption that desktop == Windows is good.

ChromeOS is Google's Linux. What things it has with desktop Linux can change whenever Google likes it. I think Google has the reputation, money and products to challenge Windows even without desktop Linux. One of the biggest reason Linux market share is low is because of gaming. Google has little to no trouble there with many developers supporting Stadia, ensuring that games work on Chromebooks. Few if any are developing for desktop Linux, and if they do there isn't a guarantee that the quality of release will be good or that they will maintain it.

I assure you regardless of what ChromeOS has in common with Linux, similar to Android, the underlying principles of these platforms deviates to a small or bigger degree to what I love about Linux. I had to use LineageOS to get away from Google products and services for example. And these things can change if Google wants to, for better or worse. Stadia is another proof of that. "A place for all the ways we play". I like to play locally.

Quoting: Purple Library GuySo overall, I don't think Google have any reason to be against desktop Linux; if they had an opportunity to kneecap someone, both Microsoft and Apple would be far ahead of desktop Linux in their "to crush" list. And in a zero-sum game where kneecapping desktop Linux mostly would help MS and Apple (but not ChromeOS because different market segment), there's no way they'd be doing that. What I can see is Google, or the little Stadia bit anyway, pushing for exclusives period, so that no desktop version happens at all. But I don't think they have the market share in the gaming business to pull that off much.

Definitely, right now they don't have any reasons to crush Linux, just as it's beneficial for Linux platform to work with Stadia to overthrow Microsoft's tactics. But what happens when Stadia and Chromebooks become popular enough to point that Chromebooks market share outgrows Linux? Then ChromeOS will overshadow Linux and there will be three, not two ecosystems for Linux to contend with. If Google intends to leverage Stadia to increase market share of ChromeOS, they will undoubtedly get a reason to want to be against Linux. Linux may not be or become their biggest competitors, but it will be a competitor. Because why would people buy Chromebooks and use ChromeOS for gaming if Linux gives them a great option (that includes Stadia)? Assuming the scenario is that both Linux and Chrome has become much better for gaming, and Windows grip on gaming is slipping.

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Quoting: NociferWhat if they (don't) tell us that them making a Linux-native Vulkan renderer for Stadia is part of an under-the-table deal with Google to not make it available for general use so it won't benefit their competition.

I'm not usually one for conspiracy theories, and I'm practically pulling this out of my a$$ here, but it wouldn't really surprise me if it became known some day that Google has employed such practices in order to promote Stadia.

I think people who easily label others thoughts as conspiracy theories are naive at best and ignorant at worst. No bad company will come out and reveal what shady things they are doing behind scenes, they will likely try to hide their actions. I have always thought up until this discussion surrounding Cyberpunk that Stadia might not have negative consequences for Linux when it comes to developers wanting to use Stadia release as opportunity to release on Linux as well. But it hit me, and as I said, if developers games work on Stadia..why would they bother to take the initiative to release natively or make Vulkan renderer for the Windows release to help Linux ecosystem. They can just say "Play it on Stadia". This will be hugely detrimental to Linux ecosystem and great for Stadia (Chromebooks/ChromeOS).

I have hoped and still do that CDPR makes Vulkan renderer available on Windows. But if CDPR isn't doing the Stadia port themselves then that will likely not happen. Furthermore there goes the chance of CDPR transitioning to Vulkan API for next Witcher game whether that be a sequel, prequel or remake. This isn't good.

Also I would not be surprised if Google had a clause in their agreement with developers that prohibits or restricts native release on Linux. Why on world would you as a company be for desktop Linux, which competes with ChromeOS, and also encourage a local release that goes against your streaming service?

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We discuss the harm Proton can or has done to native releases. What if developers rely on Stadia for Linux gamers to play their games. What if when we ask CDPR to make Vulkan renderer available for Proton, they then tell us that it's not worth it for them to do that because the game is already playable on Stadia.

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Quoting: rustybroomhandleWe do. It's a DirectX 12 game because of the raytracing support. The Stadia port is Vulkan, so I guess they do have a basis upon which they could include Vulkan support on Windows with some effort, but for now it is DirectX 12.

Where has it been stated that Stadia port uses Vulkan? All I've read are peoples expectations.

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Quoting: SolitaryValve doesn't get 30% cut for a game of this magnitude, they will get 20% only and I wouldn't be surprised if CDPR made extra deal for even smaller cut.

True, I forgot about that. That's not a bad thing though. Even though CDPR doesn't support Linux, at least they support DRM-FREE games and good practices within the business. So 20% for Valve isn't bad either. I just know that between CDPR and Valve I would like to support Valve more as they do alot more for Linux. CDPR haven't even shown signs of wanting to support Vulkan API, so that it becomes the industry standard, something I think isn't unreasonable to expect them to do.

Quoting: PhlebiacLet's not give undue credit; unless I am missing something, all that the developers did in this instance was make the game available to Valve in advance - which they also do for press reviewers and such. That doesn't sound like effort to me.

Are you sure they didn't make it available to Valve even sooner reviewers? In any case, things have to have a beginning. Next step, to expect from CDPR, is them making Vulkan renderer available for WINE.

Quoting: CatKillerThey did all the work to make a native version of the scale of Cyberpunk 2077 already: they developed it for Debian using Vulkan. They just won't sell it to us.

CDPR's involvement in "making it work on Linux through Proton" was bunging Valve a beta key, which cost them literally nothing. Valve wrote an extension for Vulkan to make it work, Valve contributed to Mesa to make it work, Valve hired developers to work on Proton to make it work; CDPR did absolutely nothing.

Developers should be rewarded for their support of Linux gaming, but CDPR haven't given any. Quite the opposite, in fact.

We don't know if Cyberpunk uses Vulkan or DXVK/VK3D for Stadia. There also the issue of maintaining the game after release, which isn't a easy task. I won't judge CDPR being unfriendly to Linux on basis of game not being released for Linux. I will judge them based on if they make Vulkan renderer available or not. There are likely reasons they haven't because on launch Cyberpunk won't have raytracing on nextgen consoles. That will come next year.

I'm rewarding Valve not CDPR because I intend to buy the game on Steam. I won't buy it on GOG unless they make Vulkan renderer available by time I decide to buy it.

However, by buying a game that doesn't support Linux, you are sending the message to the dev that they don't need to support Linux to get your money. Why should that dev support Linux if you're going to give them money either way?

One percent. One damn percent is Linux's market share. How are you going to sustain all developers a good share of money for their games if all of them decided to support Linux? The money that the combined one percent has to spend would be spread so damn thin that all games, even great ones, would sell poorly by Windows standards.

When we reach three to five percent market share, that is when we should demand more. We are not in a position to bargain for anything. The most we should expect is CDPR making Vulkan renderer available for the game so we have better compatibility. Depending on if they do or not should decide whether you buy from GOG or Steam.

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First off, any developer tries to make their game work on Linux through Proton is not against Linux. Regardless of how many people has wished for GOG Galaxy and Cyberpunk natively, you can't deny the market share. It's not enough to sustain native development of the scale that Cyberpunk is. This can't be stated enough. Proton is one of the biggest assets Linux has, besides quality native releases, to build market share.

On the subject of Proton and Stadia. I strongly believe Proton will always be the best choice if you care about gaming on Linux. Valve has poured so much into the ecosystem, and Cyberpunk being playable is yet another proof of that. You want native releases? Most if not all of Valve's games are natively available, including their big budget VR game Half Life: Alyx. And they haven't stopped improving Linux, their goal has been to make games as playable on Linux as on Windows. You may be buying a Windows game, but consider this..

• Buying Cyberpunk gives money to decent if not infalable developers


• These same developer are under GOG brand. GOG promotes DRM-Free gaming


• Valve gets 30% cut. They are clearly spending money to improve Linux. So why wouldn't you buy on Steam


• It counts as a Linux purchase when you play through Proton

Meanwhile, what has Google done as of late for Linux Gaming? Yes, Stadia is available on Linux but how can you be sure the reason it's on Linux is because their intentions are good? That they want to help Linux? I think they want to help themselves. Streaming does not seem like a difficult thing to provide for Linux. For any platform you need players for it to succeed. So it would be stupid of them to not support Linux.

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It's a little disappointing that they aren't using Vulkan (with RT). Little because if they use DXVK for Stadia too then it shows them not discriminating against Linux. Simply a business related decision. If you look at Metro Last Light, it's not a quality port. So I think we should lower our expectations in this case. Devs engaging with Linux is better than not doing. Remember Proton and DXVK are forces for good. End goal is to lay the groundwork for sustainable native releases.

Relying on Proton and DXVK will get them more experience with Linux ecosystem. Perhaps this time around their port of Exodus, even with DXVK, will be of far superior quality than their port of Last Light. Developers using DXVK/Proton will just accelerate the performance of games running through WINE.

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Quoting: GuerrillaFor me, Linux gaming is already here because I generally don't play online multiplayer games. I have literally one friend that plays games, so I rarely have anyone tugging at me to play a game online.

I can understand if you're into multiplayer games that the situation is disappointing, to say the least. But consider how far we've come; for example, I bought Yakuza: Like a Dragon last week and other than some minor annoyances/workarounds, the game basically works out of the box on day one. It's stunning to me to see a AAA game work day one, but here we are.

Hopefully there will be some solution to the anticheat problem that truly makes Linux a viable platform for gamers of all stripes.

It's wonderful to me as well. But it's been so long time since mentions of talks between Valve and EAC, and it's still far off. But we must also look at it from another point of view.

When Windows 10 was a mess, and alot of people fought against switching to it, there was a bigger opportunity for people to be persuaded to use Linux than now. These days alot have switched to Windows 10, and Microsoft has made alot of improvements that have made the OS attractive to gamers. Even Microsoft understood time was important when they decided to support developers in making their games run on Windows 7 with DirectX 12. I argue they did to prevent the developers considering Vulkan. One of those games was World of Warcraft.

I am very grateful for work Codeweavers and Valve have put in, but I wish we got more information on anti cheat. What's holding support back? What does "far off" mean? A year, two, or more? Windows 7 percentage on Steam is at 4.5%, and it's shrinking. The sooner Proton is more complete (anti cheat and mature DX12 support), the better likelihood of persuading these users to switch to Linux.

Also the sooner we get more users, the more desirable Vulkan as API will be. Consequently this will pave way for better native support.

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