Quoting: mulletdeathI've kinda noticed something about the Linux gaming community. I can't say for certain that it's coming from the same people; any community is bound to have a diversity of opinions. That said, the overall reaction to developers supporting (in varying degrees) or not supporting our platform seems rather inconsistent. On the one hand, you have developers who can't be arsed to support us officially in any way whatsoever, and the reaction to that game just happening to work on Linux is an overall positive one, like Linux gamers are just glad to have a bone thrown their way. And then you have situations like this where the overwhelming reaction is one of "if you're gonna support us at all, then do it *right* or bugger off forever!" Quite frankly, I'm not convinced, given our apparent permanent minority market share status, the community as a whole has the bargaining power to act that way.

No, definitely this case is out of your binary system. This guy didn't give a good QA so his product was bad in one of the supported OS he use to promote. Is this an isolated case? Of course not, but the problem is that he keeps taunting the community in order to project his failures in others, when he is a big part of the problem.

In the other hand, why would us as costumers and community can't ask for quality product? It's not just about to play the games as I would on Windows (If that the sole idea, I can also do it using wine), it's more about matching as much as possible the user experience in both OS. Giving the same experience is what some day will make Linux the prefered desktop platform. If we accept that for using some software we have to make specials scripts or workarounds by ourselves with devs that doesn't give a shit about our problems, that it's what takes us far away of the prime objetive, and that's why we shall say "go fuck yourself, you toad" to anyone that takes users money, do a mediocre work and doesn't take charge of the problem he helps to create. To make it clear: giving the *right* support doesn't mean to give a bug free software (we should all know that is impossible such thing), but it means to give some kind of support, even if it's just an anounce that mentions the problems.

Sorry guys, It is not about community, this is all about one guy being a jerk. And I don't know why many here try to justify (or protect) him of what he says against us. The way he manages his product is awful, and Linux community can't be blamed of this outcome. So please, stop bringing the "community issue" that Garret use as scapegoat, we definitely are not the problem in this case.

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Quoting: Whitewolfe80As for the throw away community line we have this every so often it goes back to once again the linux die hards that think they throw f bombs and act like Stallman or Linus.
It comes as shock to them no doubt when it doesnt actually work its the reason nvidia wont embrace open source for linux is his constant rants and actively literally telling the linux team to "fuck off" in person. I ll break it down you cant do stuff like that not if you actually want people to develop games for your platform,swearing death threats etc for not bringing a game to linux.

I think you mix a lot of stuff here. First off, Torvalds rant's has a reason and he explain them quite often: he wants to be completelly sure that you understand that he doesn't like what you're doing. He can't be polite when you're doing something wrong and that's why he said "Nvidia, fuck you" years ago. Funny things is that time proven he was right, as you can see how AMD open source Linux driver end up being as good as Nvidia (if not far better). So, Nvidia doesn't embrace foss driver not because of the community, but because they want to do everything as they want, even if they do it the wrong way.

And dammit, you have no idea how much we rant to AMD with their catalyst drivers. We really fucking hated them and we really make them notice how shitty they were. But now that they are doing things as should be done, try to find anyone ranting against them. Try to find someone that doesn't recommend buying a AMD gpu to others Linux users (yes, even being slightly expensive than Nvidia counterpart).

The community has always had two coin face, and definitely nobody rants to the devs that does things right.

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Quoting: rapakivLiam as a journalist you already new that this post would be a wildfire, just suggesting that sometimes you should block comments in some articles :), freedom of speech sometimes can be really annoying.

That would be stupid. Some of you guys sounds like you're frightened that some of our comments gets to others devs and they will stop supporting due to what we say, but most of our nagging here are quite moderate and quite respecful.

Sorry, but if some of them gets offended of what we have been saying so far I just can quote to one of our gods: "...I think people who get offended should be offended."

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Quoting: liamdaweI understand what you're saying, as I said I'm pretty sad about it, but when you're literally unable to provide the service people expect because of Unity and GPU driver bugs (both of which are confirmed issues with Unity and NVIDIA I might add) - is it right to say it's supported and continue advertising it, to let people down when they buy it?

To be clear on my comments, up until just now there were all posted before Garry made the Twitter statements. Obviously I'm not impressed if they weren't doing any QA.

As I already mention to Neon, I think that it could be understandable to stop supporting a platform if you find out that it's not profitable (that's the way economy works, unfortunately), but the Unity and Nvidia bug are mere excuses. Stating that he never did QA to our platform just shows us that their product managers are kinda mediocre, you cannot expect to have a product that works well without QA (in software development this is a KEY practice), not to mention that is very stupid to say that customers are "demanding, rude, abusive" when you release a product without QA.

As others already mention, many others devs were able to release on Linux their products with less resources (I recall Everspace release process as an example, not showing SteamOS icon until they could give the QA they expected in their product). Hate to say it, but you keep justifying this when there is no justification. All the statements of this guy just shows me that he has a very mediocre development process and he kinda cheated to Linux buyers.

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Quoting: nox

Quoting: x_wingWe should take in account their sales, from my point of view it should not matter the global statistics as they may be poisoned with multi-account and free to play.

We have had other publisher with way less people and they were quite supportive with our community. I cannot justify an statements as "we don't do QA because you're not enough for me". As I said before, there are other solutions, more than three years of nill QA sounds like he never care about us (and he really stated that in his tweets). I don't say he hates our platform, but this guys are definitely the type of devs I don't want to give my money.

Here you can see the number of total sessions from all platforms: https://rust.facepunch.com/stats [External Link]
Based on that, plus the fact that Unity + Nvidia has fucked shit up the last 3+months for them makes the decision understandable.
They can't pour enough resources into it to officially support it, and they are admitting that.

The fact that they'll keep building and shipping a linux version after all those issues, the outrage from the community and the tiny number of sessions is interesting and it makes me happy. It shows that they don't just want to drop linux, they just can't officially support it.

I said sales and they should know the number (but we don't). Also, I was talking about the poor QA (to not say null) it the last years. Sorry, you may find it understandable (maybe I would if I see sales numbers), but it's not justifiable to not have QA on a OS you support. Game Engines and drivers fuck games in any OS, that's something that usually happens, and having QA is what lets you workaround or announce to your community this problems.

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Quoting: nox

Quoting: x_wingDon't know. How many resource do you need for Linux QA? Having a community like Linux doesn't make this guy notice that there are other solutions?

So, let's look at this from an interesting perspective.
We are the ~0.5% on steam, that's a fact.

They have a team of 40 people, according to their teams site. How many of those are actual devs? Not sure, so let's just guess that all of them do QA and development.

That means that, proportionally, they should have 0.2 devs working on our specific issues. Increasing that to even one full dedicated person would put it, proportionally, far above the percentage of linux players.

EDIT; Pair this with the amount of issues caused by the nvidia bug and unity issues, and you can understand why it just doesn't make sense to pour resources into it. It's sad, but it's understandable.

We should take in account their sales, from my point of view it should not matter the global statistics as they may be poisoned with multi-account and free to play.

We have had other publisher with way less people and they were quite supportive with our community. I cannot justify an statements as "we don't do QA because you're not enough for me". As I said before, there are other solutions, more than three years of nill QA sounds like he never care about us (and he really stated that in his tweets). I don't say he hates our platform, but this guys are definitely the type of devs I don't want to give my money.

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Quoting: liamdaweARK has always been poor on Linux with poor communication. The one thing I value most, is communication.

Not so well with today's news.

Don't know guys. I don't feel like we're "abusive, demanding, rude" community. If you don't do QA and people that pays money for something finds out that it doesn't work, I would really understand that some people piss off with me. I mean, imagine the scenario if you give the same QA to Windows community... Is really like a chicken-egg problem this.

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Quoting: liamdaweGarry has posted about it on his Twitter now https://twitter.com/garrynewman/status/1022929143791542272 [External Link]

We stopped selling Rust on Linux because we won't/don't give it the QA support it needs. There are situations where there's a Unity Linux bug that pops up, and we ship with it - because it's the right decision for 99.99% of our players.

And

And while 60% of Linux users are fine with this, they understand their position in this world, it's probably not the right thing to act like it's fine. So while we're still going to ship Linux updates and keep it up to date.. we're not going to sell it anymore.

And

Also Linux Community - being abusive, demanding, rude to the few developers actually shipping games to your favourite OS isn't the way to go. It makes me regret ever shipping Linux versions.

Edit: Fixed wrong quote, added link.

This should be mention too:

Also Linux Community - being abusive, demanding, rude to the few developers actually shipping games to your favourite OS isn't the way to go. It makes me regret ever shipping Linux versions.

Don't know. How many resource do you need for Linux QA? Having a community like Linux doesn't make this guy notice that there are other solutions?

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Quoting: noxHere is the thing though, with the nvidia problem and unity issues on top of that the linux version didn't make facepunch look good. And there is very little they can do about those issues. Dropping official support seems logical enough considering...

If the 0.5% takes up a significant portion of troubleshooting and fixing, well, it's just not logical to keep doing it.

They don't have to do a lot, out of report the problem to Nvidia and Unity (how many resources do you need for that?). In fact, Nvidia gave a workaround for the problem.

This is an old discussion, but when you buy software you don't only pay a license to play the game, you also pay for support. If the guy that sells this says something like "We don't test Linux versions because Linux community is way too small", then he should announce that on their store page.

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Quoting: namiko

Quoting: Leopard...Turned out it was a Nvidia driver bug.

Wow. If he's got Nvidia's Linux drivers to blame for lost game sales (their drivers have been pretty impossible for some laptops), that's pretty shitty of Nvidia.

Definitely upgrading to an AMD when I get the chance because Nvidia on Linux is going downhill.

It's not 100% Nvidia fault. The devs still should make QA of the system they support. They do it on Window and should do it too on the distro they support.

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