Quoting: Hori

Quoting: TheSHEEEP(...) is sometimes just too much, especially with the traffic management which I wish you could mostly just disable...(...)

said every real life city planner ever :)))

I'm not one, I swear it!

Sounds convincing, though. At least in Skylines you can just destroy everying around a street if you need a roundabout there without the citizens rallying in protests against you ;)

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Quoting: GuestLooks nice. I just checked and i see hardware requirements for Linux.

Same for me now. Guess they added it very quickly after seeing it's not there.

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Quoting: Maath

After the Ubuntu 18.04 LTS release we had extensive threads on the ubuntu-devel list and also consulted Valve in detail on the topic.

I don't see how this statement could be true, and yet shortly after Canonical's announcement a representative from Valve stated that they would be seeking a new Linux distribution.

Maybe a left hand/right hand problem.
Possible that neither Valve's nor Canonical's hands properly talked with each other.

This all really does scream "COMMUNICATION ISSUES - collapsing empires since ancient Rome".

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Quoting: Purple Library Guy

Quoting: TheSHEEEP

Quoting: Purple Library Guy

Quoting: TheSHEEEPI simply look beyond a few personal inconveniences at the bigger picture.
And the bigger picture is that progress requires sacrifice. Can't play some games/use some apps anymore? So be it, if that's the price to pay to finally get rid of old stuff like 32bit for good.

Because . . . the libraries take up a few megs on your terabyte+ hard drive? Yeah, surely it's worth getting rid of some functionality to get that!!!
But you know, all you have to do is delete the relevant libs. Nobody's stopping you.

That wouldn't serve any purpose, as it would only be for me. As I said, I'm looking at the bigger picture here.
And the bigger picture is that right now, 32bit is like an annoying mosquito at the butt of many developers and users... just look at this very situation.
If 32bit were gone for good, well, so would be situations like these.

Yes, if 32bit were gone for good, never again would people complain about the removal of 32bit. This is kind of a tautology about any course of action, whether wise or moronic. If Canonical decided to ship without a graphical desktop environment so you just had a terminal and nothing else, after the initial firestorm they would never again have to face complaints about them ripping out the graphical environment. So I suppose by your logic they'd better go ahead and do that.

That's not at all what I was saying, but as those mental gymnastics must have been very straining, you get an A for effort.

Quoting: Purple Library GuyAnd as far as I can tell, 32bit is only an annoying mosquito to whoever maintains the libs. I have seen no case advanced by anyone in which the existence of the libs causes any problems for anyone else. Whereas lack of it is a really significant problem for a lot of cases. So the big picture seems to be that the only reason for supporting the removal of support for 32 bit applications is a sort of abstract hatred of old things and an annoyance at people getting to retain old functionality.

Manpower spent on maintaining old software is not spent on developing, testing or improving new software. Which is even worse in a space as fragmented as linux.
That affects everyone in the long run, even if not directly & immediately.
I also can't really imagine maintenance of 32bit libraries to be a very fulfilling activity, so it always seems a bit threatened to me if nobody is directly paying for it.

As a software developer myself, I can say that one of the biggest costs in development of almost any software project that is going for a few years is usually maintenance of legacy code/libs.
Yes, getting rid of old software/libs means a few people will be inconvenienced due to a change of functionality, but as long as you offer a working "good enough" replacement, the cost is much smaller in the long run than having to maintain obsolete stuff for all eternity.
As such, I understand the desire to get rid of old stuff very much.

Now, Canonical failed at this attempt as they simply did not offer a working replacement at all.
I don't care what the eventual replacement for being able to run 32bit will be. It can be emulation, Snap/flatpak-like or a big ol' precompiled "32bit compatibility pack" for all I care.
I'm just saying that the current method is obviously not the best if it causes Canonical to kick off such a fuss (and so obviously ill-prepared), and this isn't even something new, these discussions have been going on since what, 2014?
Who knows, maybe this chaos has the potential to bring some better solutions.

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Quoting: GuestHave to say I'm interested, but the mention of android, java, and so on sorta makes me want to turn away from it.

Is there nothing to be said about what sort of depth there is to it, or any actual details ? It's nice being made away of an option that'll run on linux far as games go, but this is hardly much to go on ?

Most compare it to SimCity 2000, both because of the art style and depth.

So, if you want Skylines complexity, it won't be for you, but if you want something a bit more simple, it might be right up your alley.
I don't think every game should try to aim for Skylines complexity - I even feel that Skylines is sometimes just too much, especially with the traffic management which I wish you could mostly just disable...

Also, the Steam page of the game does NOT show linux in the requirements. So I guess many will think it't not available on linux if they catch a glance of it.

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This is a must-buy for me. Eventually. Waiting for a sale, though, because you always have to take the future DLCs into account.

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Quoting: Gryxx1. Mobile internet. It is not viable to redownload games in such scenario.

We're talking about desktop usage here. What does mobile internet have to do with that?
The fringe case that one is travelling and has to use tethering? Who'd download games in that scenario and not beforehand the games they want to play on the road?

Quoting: Gryxx2.It is my responsibility of course. But i wanted to show real world use case when even 2 TB are not enough.

That's an extreme case. You can always find extreme cases that make any option look worse than it would be for 99% of people 99% of the time.

Quoting: Gryxx3. I context of my previous comments i mean "It is harder for newbies to add external drives when using flatpak Steam". And as you see i focusing on scenario small SSD and secondary HDD. I don't think new user would know how to change default flatpak location, or to allow it to see main file system.

True, but that's why I was talking about something like flatpak/Snap. A more user-friendly variant of those, with a proper UI configuration tool, setup wizard, etc.
I don't like either flatpak nor Snap right now, because I think they aren't nearly as easy to use as they should be... especially if you mix them with "normal" PPA installation. Ugh *shudders*.

Quoting: Gryxx4. It is not fair, but it doesn't mean that we have to make things harder for users that can't have top rigs.

If making things easier for the majority means making it harder for a minority, then I'm all for it, as long as it is within reason. "The need of the many..."
And I consider the small bloat a Snap/flatpak-like approach would introduce absolutely reasonable.

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Quoting: F.UltraAbout the "postponed" bit we don't really know about that either, earlier they where to abandon it altogether so in time they might come to the conclusion that they cannot postpone it either.

They really did put themselves in a position of uncertainty here, that's for sure.

I was actually planning to just copy my entire linux drive (running Ubuntu 18.04) over to the new SSD once that arrives (Amazon being slow as hell, again...), but all this hassle made me think that maybe I should try out another distro, just for the sake of it and maybe having an option, should this really end badly for Ubuntu.

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Quoting: GryxxI got 4 drives ~3 TB total around 98% full, while having installed 149/320 games.

Well, there is your problem.
Only have games installed you actually play. At no point do I have more than 5-10 games or so installed.
Don't blame others for your inability to keep your drive cleaned up, that's your responsibility.

Besides, the largest part of games are assets, not libraries. It would be interesting to have some studies on actual numbers, but I doubt the part that would be "saved" by having libraries only once would be more than 10% of the total, if that much.

Quoting: GryxxEvery containerization would make thing more difficult for new users. And we barley reached a point when Linux gaming is not considered hard.

That's a joke, right?
Containerization is the easiest thing for new users. You just need to install the program you want and it WILL work, because it is guaranteed to contain everything it needs.
All other approaches will (occasionally) have you install additional software just to be able to run X.

Quoting: GryxxAnd for the price- remember it is dependent on individual peoples income. For example, in my country you could expect to get paid around 460$ monthly, making such SSD too expensive (Even if relatively cheap per gigabyte). And that is not worst case scenario like Brazil either.

Too bad for these people, but those are not the countries pushing technologies, or playing much of a role in business decisions for developers, etc.
Not everyone is in the situation to be able to have and maintain a high-end gaming rig. That's not fair, but such is life.

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Why not just use a kind of Snap or flatpak to keep those 32bit libraries around that are needed?
We're mostly talking about Steam and Wine here, both could be packaged with what they need. Sure, that means some minimal bloat, but disk space is really damn cheap (I just bought a 2 TB SSD (!!) for under 400$, so... yeah).

Or, as Canonical said in the announcement, use container technology to keep a "fresh" 32bit environment around for those applications that need it.

I just don't really see the need to keep them around in PPAs, which I think is Canonical's main point here.

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